Differences In Material

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
I'll start off by saying that I really don't know alot about the art of Kajukenbo. However, Prof. Bishops book has provided me with some very good history! :)

Anyhow...I realize that there are various branches/methods to the art, but I'm interested in hearing how the techs. vary from one method to the other. For example, looking the the book, I was able to see descriptions of techs. in the original method. How much of a difference is there between the original and the other methods out there?

Mike
 

Danjo

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
1,378
Reaction score
60
Location
Fullerton, CA
I'll start off by saying that I really don't know alot about the art of Kajukenbo. However, Prof. Bishops book has provided me with some very good history! :)

Anyhow...I realize that there are various branches/methods to the art, but I'm interested in hearing how the techs. vary from one method to the other. For example, looking the the book, I was able to see descriptions of techs. in the original method. How much of a difference is there between the original and the other methods out there?

Mike

I don't know a lot about the other method's techniques beyond a few clips, but the Original Method is also known as the "Hard Style." The other branches have more kung fu and even Tai Chi techniques in them. That might give you some idea as to what the differences would be.
 
OP
M

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
I don't know a lot about the other method's techniques beyond a few clips, but the Original Method is also known as the "Hard Style." The other branches have more kung fu and even Tai Chi techniques in them. That might give you some idea as to what the differences would be.

Thanks Dan!:ultracool
 
OP
M

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
430
Location
Cromwell,CT
Just wanted to revive this thread. I'd be interested in hearing from John Bishop as well, as he has quite an extensive background in Kaju. I'm interested in hearing more about what seperates each style. In your book it covered alot on the Original Method. Could you shed more light on the other methods such as Ramos and Gaylord?
 

John Bishop

Master Black Belt
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,158
Reaction score
76
Location
Southern Calif.
KAJUKENBO- CH'UAN FA

Adriano Emperado felt that the Chinese martial arts had an abundance of technical diversity to offer to the kajukenbo system.
One thought he entertained was a complete evolution to a kajukenbo style with a much stronger Chinese emphasis. This brought about the development of kajukenbo ch’uan fa in the 1960’s. Aiding in this development was Al Dela Cruz and Al Dacascos, both black belts from Sid Asuncion’s kajukenbo school.
Originally named tum pai by Emperado, the first phase of development involved the incorporation of southern styles of kung fu and tai chi. Al Dela Cruz helped with this development by converting the first two Pinan’s to forms more resembling Chinese forms. Although they kept the same foot movements, the hard linear hand movements were replaced by softer hand movements. And many of the hard style horse stances were replaced with very low deep cat stances, resembling those of the southern Chinese sil-lum systems. During this time Al Dacascos was also training with Eugene Ho, a Siu Lum Pai Association instructor who was a student of Buck Sam Kong. This kung fu training provided Dacascos with knowledge that he also contributed to the tum pai development.
Professor Wong, a.k.a. “Old Man Wong” of the Honolulu Chinatown kung fu Association was also a strong influence on, and supporter of Emperado efforts in this endeavor to incorporate more kung fu into the kajukenbo system.
In the winter of 1964, Dacascos moved to the San Francisco Bay area of California. Over the next couple of years he established associations with many of the Chinese martial artists in that area. One group in particular was the San Jose Chinese Physical Cultural Center. The instructor there was Paul Ng. Ng taught a southern style called fu-chow, a element of the hong-ga kin system. Also in the group was Kam Yuen and Ron Lew of the tai mantis system. One of the focuses of this group was to learn the northern sil-lum or northern pak-pai system from Professor Wong Jack Man.
In 1965, Al Dacascos held a meeting in California with Adriano Emperado and Al Dela Cruz to discuss the state of the tum pai branch. Dacascos explained to them that he thought the tum pai name was no longer applicable to the new branch, because it had now evolved to also include northern kung fu techniques. After he demonstrated to them the long range northern techniques that he had learned, like high jumping butterfly kicks, and full circle sweeps, they agreed with him that a more appropriate name should be used to describe this evolving branch of kajukenbo. They agreed to replace the name tum pai with the name ch’uan fa. Dacascos developed a written system of 82 training exercises, drills, and requirements to teach the concepts and principles of the new kajukenbo ch’uan fa. And a number of Chinese forms like, fua yip, limpo, and pak sil-lum were also added to the ch’uan fa branch. Ch’uan fa became a official branch in 1966.
At the time it was Emperado’s desire to have all the existing kajukenbo schools convert to the new ch’uan fa style. Al Dela Cruz was given the assignment to teach the new ch’uan fa techniques to the kajukenbo instructors in Hawaii, and Al Dacascos was to do the same with the instructors in California.
The conversion to this new style of kajukenbo was met with some resistance by a number of instructors who preferred the original “hard style” kajukenbo. Emperado allowed those instructors to continue to teach the original style. While some other instructors choose to develop their own methods of ch’uan fa.
One change Emperado did require of all schools was the adoption of Chinese titles to replace the Japanese titles that were used previously. Sifu, the Chinese title for teacher, replaced the title of sensei. Professor Emperado took the title sijo, which is the Chinese title for founder.
Later, other Chinese titles like sigung were also added to the kajukenbo rank structure.
As will be discussed below, more branches of kajukenbo evolved, and methods of those branches evolved even more.

© KAJUKENBO-The Original Mixed Martial Art, 2006
 

John Bishop

Master Black Belt
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,158
Reaction score
76
Location
Southern Calif.
KAJUKENBO - WUN HOP KUEN DO

Wun hop kuen do was the next evolutionary change for the kajukenbo system. This branch of kajukenbo was the brainchild of Al Dacascos. The literal meaning of wun hop kuen do is, combination fist art style.
In the years following the development of ch’uan fa, Dacascos continued to get more and more involved in the study of the Chinese martial arts. During this time period he was also making changes and additions to ch’uan fa. Hence the ch’uan fa that he was practicing and teaching, was starting to take on a new and separate identity. It was becoming a personal expression of the kajukenbo, tum pai, ch’uan fa, and other martial arts that Dacascos had learned.
Since this style is always being developed, it is not a fixed system. This means that won hop kuen do founder Al Dacascos is always striving to improve the style by incorporation and improvement of useful methods or techniques.
In addition, the philosophy of remaining "unfixed" also applies to the styles defense techniques, in that there is no defined responses to a given situations. And an attempt is made to fit the response to the situation as it arises. This concept leads to self defense techniques that are creative and allows one to think about what is the best response. Wun hop kuen do has many drills that develop the type of fluidity and creativity that lead to the ability to respond reflexively to any situation.
Although wun hop kuen do is not a fixed style it does contain a written system of techniques, training methods and philosophies. The result is a system of training methods and maneuvers that teaches one to be system-less. The following are the 25 technical fighting principles of wun hop kuen do:
1. Setups
2. Positioning
3. Independent Movement
4. Initial Speed
5. Critical Distance Line
6. Line of attack
7. Bridging the gap
8. Five Primary Techniques
9. Lead vs. Rear side
10. Economy of motion
11. Relaxation vs. Tension
12. Mobility vs. Immobility
13. Extension, hyper-extension, and double hyper-extension
14. Leading centers
15. Unpredictability vs. Classical form
16. Straight line vs. curved line
17. Defensive choices
18. Initial speed vs. combinations
19. Faking
20. Constant forward pressure
21. Time commitment theory
22. Defensive movement patterns
23. Angle of attack vs technique variation
24. Half, full, and extension commitment
25. Theory of broken rhythm

© KAJUKENBO-The Original Mixed Martial Art, 2006
 

John Bishop

Master Black Belt
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,158
Reaction score
76
Location
Southern Calif.
KAJUKENBO - TUM PAI

The original concept and development of techniques for tum pai was started by Adriano Emperado, Al Dacascos and Al Dela Cruz, in the early 60's. It was a attempt to create an advanced style for the Kajukenbo system that would incorporate more Chinese elements into the system.
In the mid-60's the developments that made up tum pai became incorporated into what was to be renamed ch'uan fa, thus leaving the tum pai concept in an indeterminate state.
In 1971, Jon Loren started incorporating the concepts of tai-chi and southern sil-lum into his kajukenbo classes. This was called northern kajukenbo until 1974. In 1974, while staying with Adriano Emperado in Hawaii, he demonstrated his concepts and techniques and asked if he could call it tum pai and bring the name back to life. Emperado granted permission with the acknowledgement that the original tum pai followed a different path than the revised tum pai soft style.

Here are the distinctions of the Tum Pai system:
Northern Tum Pai – Hybrid Gung-fu

The initial foundation of northern tum pai is based upon the Chinese combined classical structures of combat (northern praying mantis, southern sil-lum, eagle claw, etc.), tai chi ch’uan, and the streetwise techniques of the kajukenbo system. Tum Pai is a street art, not a sport, and is aggressive tai chi application gung-fu. Competition is not taught, but rather, students work out together without a win/lose concept. There are no winners and no losers. To this effect, it is noted for six specific structural characteristics as its basis for creativity and originality.
1. Soft Style Applications of Tai Chi Ch’uan: Northern tum pai is characterized by the fact that it is, in essence, the street application of tai chi ch’uan, using its theories of evasion, off-centering, yielding, rooting, reversing, and redirecting the flow of attack in a non-muscular way, allowing a person of any size to defend themselves. Basic tai chi practice is a regular part of tum pai training. The advanced theory and application of tai chi in northern tum pai is called yam foon jeet sow fut; translated, it means “night wind intercepting palm”. Tum Pai is based on traditional tai chi, not simplified or modified. It contains all the traditional weapon use. Tum Pai has its own tai chi certification program (initiated in 1975) as a separate art, as well as being a structural part of tum pai. In order for one in tum pai to certify a student as a separate tai chi teacher, they must have our tai chi certification themselves.

Tum Pai Tai Chi Instructor Requirements (Certification):
— Minimum of 4 ½ years of training time
(Minimum of 10 lessons per month)
(Minimum of 15 minutes of personal practice — 7 days a week)
Acceptable Completion (Viewed by Board) of:
— Short and Long Yang style Form
— Yang style Sword Long Form
— Yang style Sum Quay Sword Form
— Ng style Long Form
— Single and double push hands (Yang & Ng Form)
— Yang style Da lu
— Chi gua concepts and exercise practice
— Tai Chi physiology, energy alignment, structural alignment and breath concepts
— Tai Chi thesis (thesis on any subject related to Tai Chi – approved by Teacher – 7 typed pages minimum)
— Three day Tai Chi solo campout: Requirements given at time
— Final Tai Chi test (must achieve 2 out of 4 tests)

2. Tendon Structure: Northern tum pai ‘expression’ is based on a relaxed tendon structure concept, which aligns the overall posture of: arms, legs, feet, and hands. It structures them so that it eliminates muscularity, and opens the pathways for your internal energy to be focused and transmitted through, thus enhancing speed, reaction, and explosion. The enhancement of chi gives the practitioner a ‘feeling touch’ that is used to sense an attack and to give the practitioner a magnetic feel in chi sao (sticky hands) application. Tum Pai does not oppose force, it redirects force, reverses force, or yields to force. Tum Pai only operates in the relaxed physical and emotional state. There isn’t a rigid state. Power is issued by focused explosive chi strikes or the manipulation of the attacker’s central nervous system as in chin-na grappling.
3. Open Hand Training: Tum Pai is noted for its open hand techniques, versus the closed hand (fist) techniques. Though some techniques incorporated the fist way, the majority of the redirecting (blocking) and striking techniques are open hand. Because of the energy development and alignment in tum pai training, the slap-poke open hand tendon structure alignment, the magnetic pull, and the open palm internal energy strikes are a major part of the tum pai martial application. The relaxed open ‘feeling hands’ are a trademark of the tum pai system, and its yam foon jeet sow fut advanced system.
4. Night Wind Forms (Yam Foon Jeet Sow Fut): These forms were created over a 20-year span to emphasize non-opposition, circular redirection (small circle theory) as opposed to linear motion, relaxed non-muscular movement that emphasizes internal energy, and noted especially for its explosive releasing of energy. Tum Pai and its “night wind” forms are thus a style of tai chi that teaches students tai chi energy movement coupled with realistic martial techniques. Tum Pai is considered combative tai chi in motion, and “yam foon jeet sow fut” is its advanced application.
5. Outdoor Training: It is one of the few systems that incorporate outdoor martial survival training, living, and trained sensitivity awareness developed from harmony with nature as a regular part of its curriculum. Advance testing for higher ranks incorporates these outdoor training skills to enhance a practitioner both mentally and spiritually, and to learn to gather from the earth’s forces an energy connection that is not only used martially, but in everyday life.
6. The Healing Art: Tum Pai is noted not only as a strong internal gung-fu art, but it is also noted for its ability to naturally restore one’s health from regular training. All techniques of martial structure are health-based and aligned through tai chi principals. This creates a constant flow of energy throughout the body, receiving and expelling through the Earth’s forces so that the body’s organs, nerves, muscles, etc. are constantly balanced. This is coupled with internal health principles, restorative massage, nervous system knowledge, and herbal health principles. A senior teacher would thus have a good knowledge of medicinal herbal health as well as being a high level martial artist. There is a separate herbal certificate for individuals who specialize in herbal medicinal health.
Tum Pai Description​
As a hybrid gung-fu system, northern tum pai differs from classical systems, for it contains emphasis on defense against American boxing, wrestling, and advanced street fighting attacks, rather than oriental attack. Not having one set pattern for defense against these, it teaches to change its flow and pattern to whatever type of situation occurs.
Though it has classical roots and teaches, partly, the classical way (traditions, customs, basic structures and healing), it also teaches the “hybrid way” of no ties, restraints, or bindings to hinder the ultimate defense. In other words, it teaches the foundations to the practitioner, but he himself develops “his way” or his own system from the basic structure to fit himself. The system therefore does not teach the student, but only helps “guide” him, “for he himself makes himself”.
Though it usually takes approximately six months to acquire basic knowledge and ability for an average street attack, it must be noted that to obtain a complete basic structure in northern tum pai, it would take approximately five years of continuous training. For students who want to live the art, there are five more years of intermediate training and a lifetime for advanced training (this includes inner strength development, various nerve manipulation, and poking (chin na techniques, and energy healing coupled with extensive herbal training). It is from these structures – forms and techniques training, etc. – that students, through confidence, can naturally become themselves and gather the tools for self-expression and creativity emphasized by northern tum pai.
The structures are then their tools to work with, so that, basically, a student would never run out of new tools (techniques) and would be a student of learning all their life. There is always more to learn about the system, more to learn about themselves, and more to create and experiment with to fit themselves. During their life in the art, the student would be touching tradition, but yet not be tied or bound to any structure, for these are just many rays of light to many “paths” out of the darkness. tum pai’s goal is to live long and feel good.
Northern Tum Pai​
Application Description​
Northern tum pai is not a sport. Rather, it is an art based on street application of self-defense that holds no rules or guidelines from sport competition other than the philosophical philosophy of the wu teh code (warrior’s moral and etiquette code). Martial code is taught as the core and spirit of northern tum pai. It emphasizes one’s complete honor and sacrifice in defending one’s self or loved ones.
Emphasizing a strong mental attitude and bearing, it is balanced by technical soft style evasion, redirecting, and reversing the flow of attack concept in a non-muscular energy direction way, allowing a person of any size to defend themselves. Instruction includes basic, intermediate and advanced open-hand form (night wind forms) training, weapon sets, tricks (punching attack applications), ground grappling, locking, sweeping, throwing, kicking, and open-closed hand and elbow striking. Inner grappling includes chi sao (sticking hands) neutralizing and nerve poking, and chin’na (nerve locking) techniques. Weapon defensive and offensive instruction includes: short knife, club (short and long stick) staff, chain, sword (double edge and broad), three-sectional staff, the fan, throwing stars, chain whip, and the bow and arrow.

© KAJUKENBO-The Original Mixed Martial Art, 2006
 

tellner

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,379
Reaction score
240
Location
Orygun
Some day I've got to find those cartoons I did as editor of the old IKS newsletter. Sifu Dacascos laughed like hell and told me not to print them.

"Kajukenbo - The Amphibian Martial Art" - included "Kajucanetoad", "Chuan Frog", "Tum (lily) Pad" and "One Hop Cane Toad"
 

John Bishop

Master Black Belt
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,158
Reaction score
76
Location
Southern Calif.
Some day I've got to find those cartoons I did as editor of the old IKS newsletter. Sifu Dacascos laughed like hell and told me not to print them.

"Kajukenbo - The Amphibian Martial Art" - included "Kajucanetoad", "Chuan Frog", "Tum (lily) Pad" and "One Hop Cane Toad"

Well, the first funny name we gave to ourselves was "Kajukenbo-the chop suey martial art".
Back in the 60's when the traditional Chinese martial artists of San Francisco didn't understand the concept of a mixed martial art, we told them it was like another Chinese thing invented in America, "Chop Suey" (mixed pieces).
 

TaiChiTJ

Brown Belt
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
495
Reaction score
50
Thanks so much for sharing an excerpt from your book on the development of Tum Pai. We have a teacher of the system here in Phoenix and I spent a little time speaking with him about it. Of course he had to attend to class so having a written discussion of the history helps me. Truly amazing. I first heard of Kajukenbo in the mid 70's. I knew of Dacasco's involvement in it and Won Hop Kuen Do. I did not know of the branch that includes Tai Chi Chuan. Thanks again!
 

Latest Discussions

Top