Difference Between Hitting Too Hard, and Being Too Experienced

[Zenjael]

Recently I have noticed that while others in the club I occasion will mess with each other, they do not as much with me, as often. I am the most experienced, timewise, of those who frequent the club, but we hold a very clear, and upheld epistemology that regardless of rank, because we all hail from different styles, and have so many coming together, we are all equals, and learning from each other.

For several years I have coasted in my training, and lately have found my warrior spirit to renew the vigor in my training, and as such it has quickly brought me back to my skill level which I had regressed from.

I am only 22, and have over 7 punches in a second, and am currently at 30 kicks per leg, without having the urge to lower it. This is not to say I am great- having practiced 20 years, I know I am but at the first 1,000 feet of a mountain with literally no end, and 20 years, to the beginner seems so long, but it has been so short.

I no longer get to spar with people, and when I do, they often have to stop after fifteen minutes. I've seen people grow considerably in skill level through practicing with me, but of late, I must approach others, and almost force them into the ring. An individual who used to spar with me, months ago stopped, and it is only looking back and realizing there are few who want to spar with me I am forced to ask the question- am I going too hard? Or is it a matter of I am just beyond them, and I say that humbly.

I recall a master I had, who pointed out the importance of having decency when sparring. When practicing with another, hitting too hard makes others not desire to work with you, going too rough on people of lower skill level makes them fearful of participating. No one wants to get hurt, even if it's through something they enjoy doing.

However, I go to pains not to fight like that. To spar at the skill level, or slightly above where the other is at, that I can observe readily. When sparring in a style I share with the other, depending on their level I will constrain my range of techniques to what I know they know. I will not throw a crescent in to out kick, transition into a sliding axe-kick followed by side kick to a blue belt, but I will happily a 1st dan.

It is not a matter of being better- there is always someone faster, who hits harder, with better technique, but it is a matter of improving.

What do you guys think? Am I hitting too hard, or is it just I'm noticing the difference in skill level?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I can't even say I understand what you're asking, except that you seem to want us to know that you're 22 and have been practicing MA since age 2, which I find very hard to believe, with all due respect.

If I had to interpret your question strictly, it seems to be "Am I as great I as I think I am, despite my false modesty?" The answer would be I have no idea how great you are.

If your question is literally "Do people stop sparring with me because I hit them too hard," then I think you just answered your own question.

But seriously, and with a smile, I have to say you appear to be very much in love with yourself. You don't need anyone else to tell you how great you are.

 

[Zenjael]

The question isn't over people being better fighters or not. I suppose I did not express correctly my question, and that is my own fault. As to questioning the length of how long I have been practicing, it is just over 19 years, and I tend to round up. As I said before, the amount of time practicing means nothing.

If I wanted to be told how good my techniques were, or I am at fighting, I would post a video, that was not my intent however. In that regard, it has been, and always will be to each their own.

My question is this; when did others notice this themself, as they became more experienced, and how to mitigate that. When I was appointed Head instructor at our group, that was about when people began to stop sparring.

I apologize if I came off as saying 'I am so great' that was not my point whatsoever. Many, many people have achieved what I have, and the road going forward has a lot left to walk. But one should also know, to a degree, where they stand on that road, if they are doing something wrong, or if things are changing through the natural progression one takes through the art when one transitions from student to teacher.

 

[mook jong man]

Recently I have noticed that while others in the club I occasion will mess with each other, they do not as much with me, as often. I am the most experienced, timewise, of those who frequent the club, but we hold a very clear, and upheld epistemology that regardless of rank, because we all hail from different styles, and have so many coming together, we are all equals, and learning from each other.

For several years I have coasted in my training, and lately have found my warrior spirit to renew the vigor in my training, and as such it has quickly brought me back to my skill level which I had regressed from.

I am only 22, and have over 7 punches in a second, and am currently at 30 kicks per leg, without having the urge to lower it. This is not to say I am great- having practiced 20 years, I know I am but at the first 1,000 feet of a mountain with literally no end, and 20 years, to the beginner seems so long, but it has been so short.

I no longer get to spar with people, and when I do, they often have to stop after fifteen minutes. I've seen people grow considerably in skill level through practicing with me, but of late, I must approach others, and almost force them into the ring. An individual who used to spar with me, months ago stopped, and it is only looking back and realizing there are few who want to spar with me I am forced to ask the question- am I going too hard? Or is it a matter of I am just beyond them, and I say that humbly.

I recall a master I had, who pointed out the importance of having decency when sparring. When practicing with another, hitting too hard makes others not desire to work with you, going too rough on people of lower skill level makes them fearful of participating. No one wants to get hurt, even if it's through something they enjoy doing.

However, I go to pains not to fight like that. To spar at the skill level, or slightly above where the other is at, that I can observe readily. When sparring in a style I share with the other, depending on their level I will constrain my range of techniques to what I know they know. I will not throw a crescent in to out kick, transition into a sliding axe-kick followed by side kick to a blue belt, but I will happily a 1st dan.

It is not a matter of being better- there is always someone faster, who hits harder, with better technique, but it is a matter of improving.

What do you guys think? Am I hitting too hard, or is it just I'm noticing the difference in skill level?

So your 22 and you have been training for 20 years , did you start when you were 2 ?
You say you punch at the rate of 7 punches a second , but is your stance developed enough so that you can transfer your body mass into the punches .
I've seen a lot of people with fast hands in my time , but due to a lack of stance that is all they had , fast hands , not heavy hands .

Stop beating up the other students and just work on your defense , remember it is easy to hit people , it takes a lot more skill to stop them hitting you.

 

[Zenjael]

You say you punch at the rate of 7 punches a second , but is your stance developed enough so that you can transfer your body mass into the punches .
I've seen a lot of people with fast hands in my time , but due to a lack of stance that is all they had , fast hands , not heavy hands .

I wouldn't lay claim to performing shoddy techniques. I also perform those punches using a horizontal positioned fist.

Again, the question is not in ability per say; it is rare for me to get hit, but it should be, I practice Bagua. We channel over blocking, placing emphasis on evasion over confrontation.

I have never beaten up any student, and nor have I heard any complaints of injury. I would have brought that up if I was legitimately hurting others, or getting hurt myself.

I am happy to retract my statement of 20 years, I was rounding up, and not by much. It just made it simpler in giving some background of who I am. Otherwise I feel the basic assumption is what has been so far; I am striking too hard when I do practice with others.

I, honestly, do not feel I am, but I feel it could be a possibility.

 

[Dirty Dog]

My initial reaction was pretty much the same as Bills.

If people don't want to spar with you, then maybe you need to work on your control, or maybe you're not as good at fighting "at their level" as you think you are.

Personally, I have yet to reach a point where people don't want to spar with me. Last night I sparred with a white belt who has about 6 weeks experience, and a 4th Dan with over 25 years. Everybody had fun, everybody got something out of it, and everybody would willingly spar the same people again.

If people don't want to spar you, the best way to find out why is probably to ask them, in a private setting.

 

[mook jong man]

I wouldn't lay claim to performing shoddy techniques. I also perform those punches using a horizontal positioned fist.

Again, the question is not in ability per say; it is rare for me to get hit, but it should be, I practice Bagua. We channel over blocking, placing emphasis on evasion over confrontation.

I have never beaten up any student, and nor have I heard any complaints of injury. I would have brought that up if I was legitimately hurting others, or getting hurt myself.

I am happy to retract my statement of 20 years, I was rounding up, and not by much. It just made it simpler in giving some background of who I am. Otherwise I feel the basic assumption is what has been so far; I am striking too hard when I do practice with others.

I, honestly, do not feel I am, but I feel it could be a possibility.

I don't care what style you do mate , if your not getting hit then your not training hard enough .

Either that or the people training with you must attack in slow motion.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

My initial reaction was pretty much the same as Bills.

If people don't want to spar with you, then maybe you need to work on your control, or maybe you're not as good at fighting "at their level" as you think you are.

Personally, I have yet to reach a point where people don't want to spar with me. Last night I sparred with a white belt who has about 6 weeks experience, and a 4th Dan with over 25 years. Everybody had fun, everybody got something out of it, and everybody would willingly spar the same people again.

If people don't want to spar you, the best way to find out why is probably to ask them, in a private setting.

I'm hip. In my dojo, there are four guys who are known to hit hard. Two of them have over 30 (and 40) years experience and they are our sensei. They hit hard, but clean, if that makes sense. Never to punish or injure; and the standing rule in our dojo is that if you get hit too hard, back off and tell your partner to lighten up; we're not into macho and we're not into proving how well we can take a punch. We all hit solid in our dojo; real punches, real kicks; but we practice focus. The other two guys in our dojo who hit hard are a guy who worked in heavy industry all his life and he hardly even feels pain; he spars with me, mostly, because I don't mind getting hit (he sure has sent me home bruised a few times, though). He knows he hits hard; he's 70 years old and doing the best he can. The other guy who hits hard is a relative newcomer to our dojo who has some prior experience in other styles; and he's very strong. But he's been asked to back it down a notch and he does. Lack of experience gives him some leeway.

In short, lots of people can hit hard. We expect senior kyu ranks and all dan ranks to be able to adjust their focus and intensity to match their partner's needs. If a lower kyu rank hurts a dan rank, it's the dan rank's fault; he should be able to defend himself. If a dan rank hurts a kyu rank, it's also the dan rank's fault, because he should have more control. If anyone hurts anyone else maliciously, they will not be returning to our dojo, ever. We hit, we hit hard. We also respect each other's limits, don't try to prove how much abuse we can dish out or take, and we practice control above all else.

 

[Zenjael]

I don't care what style you do mate , if your not getting hit then your not training hard enough .

Either that or the people training with you must attack in slow motion.

I would say for every ten strikes, one will get through. I am happy with those odds at present, though of course would like to never get hit. Keep in mind this is only a problem at this location; none of my training partners I practice with in private, nor where I teach, have had signs of similar experience. I teach for free at the organization where the sparring is faltering, I am paid to teach by another, privately. I only put that in to differentiate that I teach at different locales.

I train 4-6 hours a day now, I wouldn't say a lack of training is the issue.

In short, lots of people can hit hard. We expect senior kyu ranks and all dan ranks to be able to adjust their focus and intensity to match their partner's needs. If a lower kyu rank hurts a dan rank, it's the dan rank's fault; he should be able to defend himself. If a dan rank hurts a kyu rank, it's also the dan rank's fault, because he should have more control. If anyone hurts anyone else maliciously, they will not be returning to our dojo, ever. We hit, we hit hard. We also respect each other's limits, don't try to prove how much abuse we can dish out or take, and we practice control above all else.

I cannot recall the last time I have maliciously struck another; anytime I fear I have hit another too hard I always break the round to check to see if they're ok. Again, I've never had a complaint of injury from anyone in the club. To take a fight personally is to completely, hmmm, misunderstand martial arts to me. One is supposed to check one's self at the gate, so to speak, before ever stepping over the tape.

Bagua espouses evasion over meeting force, and I've worked hard to achieve that, to the limited extent I have. Not getting struck can be a sign of many things, but training improperly I do not think is the reason.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm hip. In my dojo, there are four guys who are known to hit hard. Two of them have over 30 (and 40) years experience and they are our sensei. They hit hard, but clean, if that makes sense. Never to punish or injure; and the standing rule in our dojo is that if you get hit too hard, back off and tell your partner to lighten up; we're not into macho and we're not into proving how well we can take a punch. We all hit solid in our dojo; real punches, real kicks; but we practice focus. The other two guys in our dojo who hit hard are a guy who worked in heavy industry all his life and he hardly even feels pain; he spars with me, mostly, because I don't mind getting hit (he sure has sent me home bruised a few times, though). He knows he hits hard; he's 70 years old and doing the best he can. The other guy who hits hard is a relative newcomer to our dojo who has some prior experience in other styles; and he's very strong. But he's been asked to back it down a notch and he does. Lack of experience gives him some leeway.

In short, lots of people can hit hard. We expect senior kyu ranks and all dan ranks to be able to adjust their focus and intensity to match their partner's needs. If a lower kyu rank hurts a dan rank, it's the dan rank's fault; he should be able to defend himself. If a dan rank hurts a kyu rank, it's also the dan rank's fault, because he should have more control. If anyone hurts anyone else maliciously, they will not be returning to our dojo, ever. We hit, we hit hard. We also respect each other's limits, don't try to prove how much abuse we can dish out or take, and we practice control above all else.

That's pretty much how we train. We stress control from day one. As students advance, they're allowed to escalate the contact by mutual agreement. Generally, however hard the lower rank strikes is how hard they'll be struck.
And that's almost a quote of something I said to the white belt last night. It was her first time sparring with gear, and wouldn't make contact. "I don't want to hurt you", to which I replied "You won't. If you hurt me, it's my fault anyway. Now hit me."
She did finally start making some contact, and really enjoyed it. She'll be fine.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

That's pretty much how we train. We stress control from day one. As students advance, they're allowed to escalate the contact by mutual agreement. Generally, however hard the lower rank strikes is how hard they'll be struck.

We're exactly the same.

And that's almost a quote of something I said to the white belt last night. It was her first time sparring with gear, and wouldn't make contact. "I don't want to hurt you", to which I replied "You won't. If you hurt me, it's my fault anyway. Now hit me."
She did finally start making some contact, and really enjoyed it. She'll be fine.

I've noticed it as well with newer students, especially if they have never been in a fight, the military, etc. I've been hit and HURT by a white belt, so they can do it; but it's up to me as a brown belt to make that not happen. We're partners in training, not competitors.

 

[Tez3]

I wouldn't lay claim to performing shoddy techniques. I also perform those punches using a horizontal positioned fist.

Again, the question is not in ability per say; it is rare for me to get hit, but it should be, I practice Bagua. We channel over blocking, placing emphasis on evasion over confrontation.

I have never beaten up any student, and nor have I heard any complaints of injury. I would have brought that up if I was legitimately hurting others, or getting hurt myself.

I am happy to retract my statement of 20 years, I was rounding up, and not by much. It just made it simpler in giving some background of who I am. Otherwise I feel the basic assumption is what has been so far; I am striking too hard when I do practice with others.


I, honestly, do not feel I am, but I feel it could be a possibility.

Perhaps you're boring them?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Perhaps you're boring them?

Hahahaha! +1.

Excuse me, gentlefolk. I am becoming concerned that I am too sexy for anyone to look at. I am 50 years old, and I've been sexy since I was -3 years old; yes, I was sexy before I was thought of. I am not bragging, but I can flex my pecs 22 times per second, and I can crack walnuts with my gluteus maximus. I've been ordered by the local police to stop sunbathing in the back yard; even though I have an 8-foot-tall privacy fence, my sexiness is such that people can see me several counties over, and it causes them to leave their spouses and race to my doorway, panting and demanding the right to become my next sexual partner; men and women alike. I even turn straight men gay, which is only understandable given the size of my package. No one will pose next to me anymore, as my smile shines brighter than the sun. I cannot say that I believe I am too sexy, but the facts speak for themselves, so that is why I am asking you. Am I too sexy, or am I too sexy? It's a curse, a curse, I tell you.

 

[Zenjael]

And that's almost a quote of something I said to the white belt last night. It was her first time sparring with gear, and wouldn't make contact. "I don't want to hurt you", to which I replied "You won't. If you hurt me, it's my fault anyway. Now hit me."
She did finally start making some contact, and really enjoyed it. She'll be fine.

My girlfriend practices with me; we met through martial arts. However she is a intermediate, and in her school they are not allowed to spar until about blue belt. It took me ages to get her to actually hit me, she didn't want to. I'm glad she's gotten over that and is perfectly willing, and capable, of throwing me.

I think a lot of new people are like that, fearful of their techniques injuring. And, to be honest, the most amount of injuries I see occurring did so around around the ranks of orange to green to purple belt, in the Chung Do Kwan system I trained under. Likewise with Moo Duk Kwan, I noticed similarly injuries occur most with beginners. I tend to find long term injuries are self-resultant of poor practice. I know a lot of MA who lost their ability to kick when they tore their ACL from improper stretching. It's unfortunate, and just that easy.

 

[elder999]

Hahahaha! +1.

Excuse me, gentlefolk. I am becoming concerned that I am too sexy for anyone to look at. I am 50 years old, and I've been sexy since I was -3 years old; yes, I was sexy before I was thought of. I am not bragging, but I can flex my pecs 22 times per second, and I can crack walnuts with my gluteus maximus. I've been ordered by the local police to stop sunbathing in the back yard; even though I have an 8-foot-tall privacy fence, my sexiness is such that people can see me several counties over, and it causes them to leave their spouses and race to my doorway, panting and demanding the right to become my next sexual partner; men and women alike. I even turn straight men gay, which is only understandable given the size of my package. No one will pose next to me anymore, as my smile shines brighter than the sun. I cannot say that I believe I am too sexy, but the facts speak for themselves, so that is why I am asking you. Am I too sexy, or am I too sexy? It's a curse, a curse, I tell you.

We're...exactly the same. :lfao:

 

[Dirty Dog]

Hahahaha! +1.

Excuse me, gentlefolk. I am becoming concerned that I am too sexy for anyone to look at. I am 50 years old, and I've been sexy since I was -3 years old; yes, I was sexy before I was thought of. I am not bragging, but I can flex my pecs 22 times per second, and I can crack walnuts with my gluteus maximus. I've been ordered by the local police to stop sunbathing in the back yard; even though I have an 8-foot-tall privacy fence, my sexiness is such that people can see me several counties over, and it causes them to leave their spouses and race to my doorway, panting and demanding the right to become my next sexual partner; men and women alike. I even turn straight men gay, which is only understandable given the size of my package. No one will pose next to me anymore, as my smile shines brighter than the sun. I cannot say that I believe I am too sexy, but the facts speak for themselves, so that is why I am asking you. Am I too sexy, or am I too sexy? It's a curse, a curse, I tell you.

I'm.. too sexy for my dobak.
Too sexy for my dobak.
toooo... sexy for my dobak...

(I know, I can't sing. But I'm sexy so it doesn't matter.)

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'm.. too sexy for my dobak.
Too sexy for my dobak.
toooo... sexy for my dobak...

(I know, I can't sing. But I'm sexy so it doesn't matter.)

I'm a martial artist, you know what I mean, and I do my little kata in the dojo.
In the dojo, or the dojang yah, I do my little form in the dojang.

I'm too sexy for Tai Chi, too sexy for Jhoon Ree, too sexy for Bruce Lee-ee.
I'm too sexy for Kung Fu, too sexy for Goju-Ryu, too sexy for Isshin-Ryu-ooh.

I'm a martial artist, you know what I mean, and I shake my little sai in the dojo.
In the dojo, or the dojang yah, I wave my big long bo in the dojang.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hahahaha! +1.

Excuse me, gentlefolk. I am becoming concerned that I am too sexy for anyone to look at. I am 50 years old, and I've been sexy since I was -3 years old; yes, I was sexy before I was thought of. I am not bragging, but I can flex my pecs 22 times per second, and I can crack walnuts with my gluteus maximus. I've been ordered by the local police to stop sunbathing in the back yard; even though I have an 8-foot-tall privacy fence, my sexiness is such that people can see me several counties over, and it causes them to leave their spouses and race to my doorway, panting and demanding the right to become my next sexual partner; men and women alike. I even turn straight men gay, which is only understandable given the size of my package. No one will pose next to me anymore, as my smile shines brighter than the sun. I cannot say that I believe I am too sexy, but the facts speak for themselves, so that is why I am asking you. Am I too sexy, or am I too sexy? It's a curse, a curse, I tell you.

Bill’s too sexy for Gi
Too sexy for Gi
He’s going to run free
Bill’s too sexy for his shirt
too sexy for his shirt
So sexy it hurts
And Bill’s too sexy for Judo too sexy for Judo
Kung Fu and Kendo
And Bill’s too sexy for your post
Too sexy for your post
No way Bill’s typing responses

 

[elder999]

1470109[/URL]]I'm a martial artist, you know what I mean, and I do my little kata in the dojo.
In the dojo, or the dojang yah, I do my little form in the dojang.

I'm too sexy for Tai Chi, too sexy for Jhoon Ree, too sexy for Bruce Lee-ee.
I'm too sexy for Kung Fu, too sexy for Goju-Ryu, too sexy for Isshin-Ryu-ooh.

I'm a martial artist, you know what I mean, and I shake my little sai in the dojo.
In the dojo, or the dojang yah, I wave my big long bo in the dojang.

Okay.......please stop.......I'm gonna pee! :lfao: :lfao:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Okay.......please stop.......I'm gonna pee! :lfao: :lfao:

Sorry...in advance...

[video=youtube_share;LJSZ1TwjcsQ]http://youtu.be/LJSZ1TwjcsQ[/video]