Dental Service: UK and USA

[HelloKitty]

Of course, being seen by a specialist is a different matter and do require advance booking, anywhere from a couple of weeks to a month. The time may be shortened considerably if the referral to a specialist comes from the doctor. It also depends upon the availability of the specialist.

- Ceicei

It can take much more than a month. I have to visit a doctor specialist in human nutrition (I go to UT Southwestern, Dallas, TX). I saw him in May because my surgeon reffered me urgently, but the next visit booked after that one is on November 26!

 

[HelloKitty]

That need not have happened - it was a simple outcome of unadulterated greed. No excuses will gainsay that. Health Trusts are a travesty and I could not believe what had happened to the NHS in the intervening years between my bike accident and my father going through heart surgery in a hospital that I vocally deemed "Third World" when I went to visit him. For there not to be enough blankets for patients is a scathing indictment of the system as it has become.

I was thinking about the "Third World" comment you did. I must tell you I lived in South America (Chile) for several years before my husband and I came to the US this year. In Chile, one of those third world countries I guess most of you don't know, is mandatory for people to be part of an "ISAPRE" (you have 7% discount of your monthly payment or you can be part of FONASA if you are a student, self employed, retired, housewife, etc etc), so you pay certain amount and you obtain copays of medical and dental treatment. People think it's a robbery for the healthy people who don't visit doctor usually, but if you really need to go to a specialist and you want the best clinic you can go. With difficulty, but you won't be ruined at the same level I've seen here in the US. And let me tell you, the best clinics and hospitals in Chile are as good as here, and now I can say the attention of doctors, nurses, etc is definitely better. (And I can really compare because I need constant medical checking) If you are really poor (indigent) you have complete free health (dental included). It's true, you have to wait a little more, but it's 100% free.

So, in this case, I think the "First World countries" (at least the US) must really worry about this subject.

(Now I have gallstones and need surgery. I'm shaking. I really don't want to be ruined by the bills...)

 

[Sukerkin]

Nice insights, HK, thanks for sharing your real experiences :tup:.

Just to clarify I don't really think of South America when I speak of the Third World and when we use the term in general conversation over here what we really mean is that investment levels have been allowed to fall so low that the quality of basic care is less than what we reckon our taxes should pay for. That's a long winded way of saying that what I typed was hyperbole for effect, not a genuine like-for-like comparison. My apologies if you took any degree of offence at my terminology.

 

[exile]

4 years ago I had a herniated disc. Yeah, it took 5 weeks to get te CT scan done. 3 days before I went to see my GP for the result, my rigt leg loat most of it's mobility. I asked the GP to refer me to the head of neurosurgery at the top neurosurgical unit in Ontario. That was Monday evening. The neurosurgeon's nurse called me on Tuesday PM to set an appointment for Wednesday morning. I was on the table the following Tuesday. No cost.

2 years ago I was visiting family in NYC. Hot August. Lots of walking. My knee selled up. I went to emerg late at night. took 3 hours to get seen. They suspected an infection. I was there for 2 nights. Got some antibiotic IV. Saw a Dr. twice for a total 15 minutes. My insurance company paid $12.5K above what the Ontario plan paid.

I much prefer Canada.

I'm with you, CanuckMA. I'm a dual citizen, lived in BC for fifteen years, have relatives both there and Toronto. I'm a pretty healthy person (touch wood), but the times I needed to see a doctor, I really needed to, and I got superb medical attention. I knew a number of people there who were not indigent, but working in low-level jobs at near-minimum wages who needed major surgery or expensive tests at one point or another in their lives. They could visit any hospital, clinic or private practice and never be turned away. I was glad to be able to pay the higher taxes I did so people who were just as valuable as me, who mattered as much to the rest of the world as me, wouldn't be in unnecessary peril because their answer to the usual HMO-level question, `how healthy can you afford to be' would have been, `not very.'

Sure, there are horror stories, everyone has them no matter where they live. I've heard some stories about HMOs that would make your hair stand on end—accountants trying to pressure MDs not to schedule patients for crucial aneurysm probes and suchlike because in the accountants' learned opinion, the tests weren't really necessary... no thanks.

 

[Sorros]

What percentage of your taxes are taken out of your check, to pay for that health care? I think that is what most americans are concerned about. I have relatives in Winsor and a brother in Nuefoundland ( I probably missed spelled that name) There taxes are way higher than ours.
Ten years ago I Visited BC. There were protests because the goverment was proposing another tax hike.
I was told by a doctor that nearly any doctor in the world can immigrate to the United States. But not Canadian Doctors.
He told me the AMA had legislation passed so that Canadian doctors could not come down here get jobs that pay better.
Did You catch the John Stossel report that (according to his report) debunked the better health care plan in Canada myth. He talked to American doctors who practiced in Canada, and Canadian doctor. You can NEVER believe Micheal Moore.
By the way I supervised radiology ar CIGNA Health Plan, even though it was free for me, I still had Blue Cross & Blue Shield. I can tell you some real good HMO stories.

 

[HelloKitty]

Nice insights, HK, thanks for sharing your real experiences :tup:.
My apologies if you took any degree of offence at my terminology.

:tup: oh, don't think I feel offended in any way for your terminology or opinions. I just wanted to share my experiences and support your thoughts about the terrible situation in health and dental. It's not a reason to be proud have worse services than countries with less resources

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Although a lot of people are de-crying HMOs, how many people here have a PPO? I have it and can make direct appointments to my primary care physician or any specialist, and only make the co-pay.

In addition, in the US, people can start a health savings account, which are tax-free deductions from your payroll to pay for medical expences. Its like a savings account, but with pre-tax dollars. And you can't go spending it on the latest gadget (you know who you are *S*) Depending on your tax bracket, it could also lower your yearly tax liability. You can even do it in lew of traditional medical insurance.

Which brings me to the next point. Most people don't realize that you can negotiate the cost of your treatment directly with your doctor if you pay cash. Remember, for him/her, it's still a business. A lot of times, they know what the treatment costs, but don't know what the insurance companies will pay for. So by negotiating directly with the patient, they know what they are going to get paid.

Which segways nicely into such things as laser eye surgery and cosmetic surgery. These are services which most insurance plans will not cover unless due to some other injury. Every year the costs of treatment go down, but the skill level increases. See what the private sector can do when there is competition.

And Medicare has its share of problems, big ones as well. For instance, when Wal-Mart sells Drugs for $4, by law, Medi-care recipients can't take advantage of it. And I know a lot of doctors who won't take Medi-Care because they never know what they will get paid, if at all.

There are other instances that I know of as far as quality of service with Medi-Care, but they are all anecdotal, and I hate using them to make a point, because there is always another side. I would be careful about saying that most seniors love Medi-care, because you could be asked to back that statement up.

As far as HMOs cherry-picking people, I know that neither myself or my fellow employees of an entire city government had to do a medical screening to obtain insurance through our employer. In fact, I've never done a medical screening to get insurance through an employer, government or not. Has any one else had a different experience?

And quite frankly, if you live a high risk life, you should pay more. The point of HMOs and other such organizations is to defray costs to the individual. While one person pays a premium and never uses services, another uses them more often. That's what helps lower costs to the individual. But I would rather do that by choice, than forced to do it through my taxes. Especially seeing how efficient government is with my tax dollars already.

 

[CanuckMA]

What percentage of your taxes are taken out of your check, to pay for that health care? I think that is what most americans are concerned about. I have relatives in Winsor and a brother in Nuefoundland ( I probably missed spelled that name) There taxes are way higher than ours.
Ten years ago I Visited BC. There were protests because the goverment was proposing another tax hike.

Yes our taxes are higher. But not entirely due to health care. I don't know how much lower they would be. I know that in Ontario, I pay a specific $1,000/year health care levy. The rest is just out of general revenue.

I was told by a doctor that nearly any doctor in the world can immigrate to the United States. But not Canadian Doctors.
He told me the AMA had legislation passed so that Canadian doctors could not come down here get jobs that pay better.
Did You catch the John Stossel report that (according to his report) debunked the better health care plan in Canada myth. He talked to American doctors who practiced in Canada, and Canadian doctor. You can NEVER believe Micheal Moore.
By the way I supervised radiology ar CIGNA Health Plan, even though it was free for me, I still had Blue Cross & Blue Shield. I can tell you some real good HMO stories.

Don't believe everything you hear, or at least check out why. ou can't immigrate to Canada and start practicing medicine either. You might not be able to move to a different state and do it.

 

[exile]

Did You catch the John Stossel report that (according to his report) debunked the better health care plan in Canada myth. He talked to American doctors who practiced in Canada, and Canadian doctor. You can NEVER believe Micheal Moore.

I don't have to believe Michael Moore. I had fifteen years of firsthand exerience in living in Vancouver, Victoria, and the northern B.C. coast, and another 45 in the US. Canadian medicine isn't one little teeny bit worse in quality than in the US. My MDs were superb, and what hospital treatment I needed was timely, efficient and precise. And unlike the US, everyone gets care. I paid higher taxes in part so that could happen, and I was glad to. It felt good to be living in a place where people were willing to pay more so that no one would go without medical treatment.

 

[CanuckMA]

Did You catch the John Stossel report that (according to his report) debunked the better health care plan in Canada myth. He talked to American doctors who practiced in Canada, and Canadian doctor. You can NEVER believe Micheal Moore.

Define better. Nobody argues that the care is superior. AAMOF, you'd be hard pressed to be able to tell the difference. It's the economic factor that makes it 'better'.

Just look through this forum to see how many injury diagnosis related questions there are becaus the poster can't afford to see a doctor. As exile said, I'm also glad to pay slightly higher taxes so that everybody has access to healthcare.

 

[Sorros]

I really didn’t want to say it, but I just have to. I have been a medical professional for 26 years. I have heard and read plenty or complaints concerning the Canadian medical system. A lot of it coming from Canadians, who flock here every winter. Some of it from the doctors I work with.
My cousin has worked in both systems. She is Canadian, drives across the border every day into Detroit, to work in an American hospital because it pays better. She has problems with both systems.
I know you will disagree with me, it’s a point of national pride, but I work in the field.

 

[exile]

I really didn’t want to say it, but I just have to. I have been a medical professional for 26 years. I have heard and read plenty or complaints concerning the Canadian medical system. A lot of it coming from Canadians, who flock here every winter. Some of it from the doctors I work with.
My cousin has worked in both systems. She is Canadian, drives across the border every day into Detroit, to work in an American hospital because it pays better. She has problems with both systems.
I know you will disagree with me, it’s a point of national pride, but I work in the field.

Yes, but the problem with coming to these kinds of conclusions is that you aren't looking at what Americans have to say about their own medical system and its major screwups. Whenever I get together with friends, inevitably someone will mention some medical problem that they or, more typically, their parents are having getting care, having to fight their insurance plan or HMO or whoever to get crucial tests, or coverage for the more expensive high-end surgery that their MD feels is called for by the gravity of the situation... you can't just say, well, a lot of Canadians complain about their health care. I would bet, from what I've heard from Americans, that you could fill just as long a book with similar complaints. It's like the mail: Canadians hate their postal system, it doesn't seem as though it could possibly be any worse, but I haven't talked to a single person from a single other country who doesn't suspect that their post offices lose one out of every four letters that they post. I tell them that at one pont you couldn't send a letter from Victoria to Vancouver without it being routed to a sorting station in Quebec because of a deal that the Federal and Quebec Liberals had signed off on setting up that sorting station to boost employment in the area, with both eyes on the next referendum that everyone knew would be coming up. They come back with horror stories that are at least as, well, horrifying. And so it goes.

What I'm saying is that you can count on a certain number of people to gripe like hell about any critical service they're dependent on. A hospital here in Columbus killed a friend of mine who had gone in for some minor procedure; he was given a dose of a medication which people who have sleep apnea should never be given, and they had his records, so they knew he'd been diagnosed with sleep apnea. He went into a coma and breathing arrest and never came out. Dead at 46. Does this—or a dozen such stories—mean that medical treatment in the States, or in Columbus, is bad? My wife and I have very good doctors, and we've always been treated very well, very promptly and solicitously; but others have had very bad experiences... and yet the OSU medical complex is one of the top major hospitals in the country.

This is why I think it's very unsafe to generalize about national health-care systems on an anecdotal basis. There's always another anecdote that someone can come up with to trump yours. I gotta say, most of my friends in B.C. were profoundly grateful for the medical service they got and greatly appreciated it...