defence against dogs........

[Blooming Lotus]

Have heard an argument in recent months on dog defence tactics, and what to do when being attacked by one. No one really came up with any solid and from much experience so when i had the opportunity with a master trainer and highly reputed secuirty expert, I ran it by himself.

He seems to think that by getting the dog to bite some thing else ( like a stick or possibley something wider, his mouth is committed and disengaged from further attack, leaving you free to execute a mabu to gongbu style hand twist circle breaking rovers neck.

I've also heard that by pulling its 2 front legs apart , you cause its heart to burst.

He has used this before himself I think and it sounds like a good method. You do what you must but does any one have anything where you wouldn't need to kill it???

BL

Btw : sounds rediculous, but where is a dog most vulnerable to cavity strikes??? .....................

 

[MA-Caver]

Out of many discussions... (this is what search is for... :asian: )

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10716&highlight=defense+dogs

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13043&highlight=defense+dogs

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2464&highlight=defense+dogs

 

[DoxN4cer]

You could just shoot the damn thing. If that isn't a viable option for you OC (pepper spray) works very well on dogs. Give 'em a nose full of OC and you won't have a problem with that dog again.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

how many ppl realistically carry either though??

 

[someguy]

Big heavy sharp objects are nice.
Heck I always carry one with me. It's my Claymore +5. Wait that's not reality. Wait I haven't even played a game with a claymore in it for a while.
I should go do that now.

I've also heard that by pulling its 2 front legs apart , you cause its heart to burst.

Sounds abit urban legendish to me. I know nothing about dogs though but could you show me some reliable source about this. Nothing personal just seems strange.

 

[Shu2jack]

Depends on the size of the dog, but a swift front kick to the jaw/nose of a dog threatening you should do the trick.

If the dog is biting you, use a free hand to gouge it's eyes, rip it's ear, or any of the previous things mentioned.

If you really think about it, what does a dog have that humans don't? Most people who would fight dirty and dish it out to a human is afraid of a dog. We outweigh most dogs, we are physically bigger than most dogs, dogs don't have free hands to counter strikes, etc.

I personally feel the biggest reason people are afraid of dogs is because of just some natural fear- it is an animal with sharp teeth. I think if people were as ruthless fighting a dog as they would be fighting a human, we should come out on top.

 

[5 hand swords]

Have heard an argument in recent months on dog defence tactics, and what to do when being attacked by one. No one really came up with any solid and from much experience so when i had the opportunity with a master trainer and highly reputed secuirty expert, I ran it by himself.

He seems to think that by getting the dog to bite some thing else ( like a stick or possibley something wider, his mouth is committed and disengaged from further attack, leaving you free to execute a mabu to gongbu style hand twist circle breaking rovers neck.

I've also heard that by pulling its 2 front legs apart , you cause its heart to burst.

He has used this before himself I think and it sounds like a good method. You do what you must but does any one have anything where you wouldn't need to kill it???

BL

Btw : sounds rediculous, but where is a dog most vulnerable to cavity strikes??? .....................

Ok - I learned from the guy who own's the only grandfathered in kennel near downtown San Diego. He rescued and trained Abused dogs for night security use and depends on breed build training (the Dog basicly) but 1 Techniqie I will give free.
Man with a club beats a dog. Sad but true and more than likely dog knows it.

2) Dog VS Pack (Spot Alpha)
3) Most trained dogs will cease attacks if you submit and just Bark.

Extra's - pressure points and Break points exist. see Canine Anatomy but he only has one weapon and head strikes kill/stun just use a weapon if you can or take a off hand bite.
hammerblow to skull vs a slap on the nose with a newpapper depends.
Use a stick thats how people beat animals and I don't want your PETA flames.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Thanks for the info" MR. MACAVER" (near the top of this page). I saw the www.martial sites. Great information from the feedbacks. After reading them all, It gives you some things you can do. There is so many breds,size, and each dog is like a individual. Each must be handle OJT (on the job) each attack may be different each time. Thank-you for sharing that! " Come on all you dogs"...I am ready..??? Nope! ....Aloha

 

[Rich Parsons]

Have heard an argument in recent months on dog defence tactics, and what to do when being attacked by one. No one really came up with any solid and from much experience so when i had the opportunity with a master trainer and highly reputed secuirty expert, I ran it by himself.

Where were the discussions? Other boards or magazines?

So, you talked to one animal trainer and security expert. Does this person have a name or a company we could talk to for our own knowledge?

He seems to think that by getting the dog to bite some thing else ( like a stick or possibley something wider, his mouth is committed and disengaged from further attack, leaving you free to execute a mabu to gongbu style hand twist circle breaking rovers neck.

As to biting something else, this might work with some, yet, the police dogs I have had the priviledge to know, follow commands and know where to bite. So, I am assuming you are talking about an untrained dog?

As to breaking an animals neck, I have picked up medium sized dogs playing tug-of-war and shaking them and twisting them including circles, and Ihave never broken a neck. I could see small dogs though. I do see one could do a neck break, yet it would require good skill and good techniques.

I've also heard that by pulling its 2 front legs apart , you cause its heart to burst.

This, I have a real hard time believing, do you have reference manual I can go look up for this. I have seen great danes legs split and they fall on their chest. I have seen other danes learn how to drop under a kick and attack the base leg to knowck the person down. Hence my comment above, about trained versus untrained.

He has used this before himself I think and it sounds like a good method. You do what you must but does any one have anything where you wouldn't need to kill it???

BL

For dog who nibble, I have used the shoove the fingers or hand down the throat to induce the gag reflex. To always available though, so I also have played and done the grab the bottom or top jaw, and pinch. they feel like they have been bit back. You can still get damage done to you. Yet, when you hand is in the dogs mouth, damage is most likely unavoidable.

Btw : sounds rediculous, but where is a dog most vulnerable to cavity strikes??? .....................

Not sure, could you elaborate?

 

[Adept]

My family and myself have been breeding and training dogs for several generations. You will not kill a dog by pulling its legs apart, you will just break its legs. Same result, the dog is out of action, but it will bark and yelp which isnt good if you are trying to be sneaky.

A dog will usually lunge at you, and usually in an easy to read manner. If you have a decent club or stick, just give it an almighty whack on the side of the head. If not, try like hell to get behind it. Dogs cannot defend their backs, and if you can get your arms around its neck, you can choke the bugger out without a hassle. The risky part is deflecting the lunge. I wouldnt recommend trying to punch it on the nose or kick it in the face, because if you miss or if you fail to stop it, you can be in some very serious trouble. Even from the front, you can apply a guillotine (sp?) style choke if you keep the head under control.

I have never tried this against aggresive dogs, but if you grad the bottom jaw of a dog they go into retreat mode, and the last thing they do is bite. Like I say, I've only tried this on playful dogs, or ones that needed a tablet of some kind, or had something stuck in the back of their mouth, but they have never bitten. Something to perhaps bear in mind as a last resort.

 

[Vadim]

If you attempt to fight a well trained attack dog the outcome is not going to be very favorable for you. The amount of bite pressure a dog can exert on human bone and flesh is immense. You will most likely have broken bones and such. As with any situation if you can retreat safely follow that course of action.

If the dog attcks you it may help to play "dead". Attacking the dog further will only serve to infuriate it even more. There are people out there in some cities that train there dog to attack rapidly and without fear. Take the pitbull an excellent dog who would make a great pet if raised in the proper environment. But if a disreputable person trains a pitbull it can be a vicious killer. These dog fight trainers will actually spray OC at these dogs to attempt to desensitize them from the effects and show these dogs that they can still attack. In NYC drug dealers will have for example a rottweiler who is attack trained with its voicebox removed. When officers enter a drug house they wont hear the dog barking only the pitter patter of the paws on the floor. You may not be able to get a shot off if you dont see or hear the attack coming.

The main point is be safe! Use common sense and try not to approach stray dogs or animals you are not familiar with. I think that most dogs dont go out there looking to bite humans. It is the dog that is aggressively trained in a negative manner and fear biters that will attack. Look at the dog and see how it is acting. If its tail is raised up back off slowly and call the dog catcher or the local humane society. Or if the dog has its tail between its legs it is scared. Just do a little research and become familiar with the behavior patterns of dogs. Dogs dont lie and by their behavior you should be able to tell their disposition. I feel that there are no natural bad dogs just some bad people making good dogs bad.

-Vadim

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Absolute, pure horse dooky. Have (ridiculously) had at it with a variety of dawgs in a line of part time work I did in my undergrad days. Explode their heart? Bologne. Unfavorable outcomes? If you can find your skills with your mind, and your nuts with either hand, you'll be fine.

The only time you're in trouble with a dog is if you're mentally off your game. From Dobie's to American Bulldogs with big heads and muscally bodies attached to their heads, your natural weapons from karate will serve you well. Gross motor patterns (none of that "grabbing the jaw and left earlobe" crap)...blast him in the middle of his charge with a very hard front snap kick to jaw, throat, chest, head, mouth, etc (aim at the dog, and hit him), then follow with a series of raining downward punches to whatever presents. If he latches on to one of your hands, keep punchnig him maniacally with the other in the head, muzzle, soft tissues of the neck, etc.

If they jump up to lunge at you, thrust kick them in the belly. Most big, mean nasty guard dogs fold when faced with a bigger, meaner, nastier dog. You just have to make sure that dog is you. Exhibit dominance by grimacing; kiai-ing louly and fiercely with each blow, and never back up. Bum rush the dog as soon as you even suspect it's on, and give it cause to believe you are the GOD of the alpha hounds. It doesn't know better unless you communicate otherwise with your actions.

I now leap with seething anger and rage at dogs in the middle of dominance fighting. G-friend (well, ex now) was/is a dog trainer, and it's not uncommon in the first few days of class to have idiot owners who've failed to establish dominance with their mutts, also fail to control their aggression. Broke one up the other day between a bull mastiff and an akita (about the largest dogs you can get, and as far as I'm concerned, the Akita is one of the least sociable you can get). Everyone else split the instant they started fighting. I leapt at them hollering at the top of my lungs that they weren't going to pull that crap on my shift, snap punched one and foot-swept the front legs of the other at the same time, before latching on to them and shoving their heads to the ground via a well-placed grip on the tops of their necks just behind the skull. Both of them, large scary dogs, instantly got that "oh, no" look in their eyes and went soft. Akita attempted a trial pull, so I put my face right in his and growled my most menacing grunt, nose to nose. The kid peed from fear.

Dogs are easy. Blast them. They also respond to grappling. Nothing fancy; just throw one in a headlock, controlling its lateral movement (searching for something to bite on to), and hang on until it quits squirming. It will try harder in predictable increments. First, a bit of increased energy as it still thinks its fighting. Harder as it starts to sweat for its life; you hang on, it gets the message, and eventually quits strugling, realizing it's been bested. Nothing more than a tight headlock. Keep in mind controlling their initial escape response, which is to move rearwards with all their might. You can check that by picking them up, body slammnig them down (all in the headlock), and laying on them so they don't go anywhere/get footing.

The rest is dramatic silliness.

Dave

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Big heavy sharp objects are nice.
Heck I always carry one with me. It's my Claymore +5. Wait that's not reality. Wait I haven't even played a game with a claymore in it for a while.
I should go do that now.
Sounds abit urban legendish to me. I know nothing about dogs though but could you show me some reliable source about this. Nothing personal just seems strange.

http://anatomical.com/product.asp?pn=1587795078 will this + logic do??? Remember I heard this from a dog handler with 20 yrs security experience.

btw : promised the mods I would argue so that's all you get. please direct any further queries to google or kazzar....... thank you

( Ps: any one for egg shell shards in your feet???)

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Where were the discussions? Other boards or magazines?

So, you talked to one animal trainer and security expert. Does this person have a name or a company we could talk to for our own knowledge?


?

yes. the security school is Corporate security training at www.training-1.com

and the instructors are Shane Gordon and Darren someone

cheers

BL

 

[An Eternal Student]

Absolute, pure horse dooky....
...... other in the head, muzzle, soft tissues of the neck, etc..... The kid peed from fear.
...... You can check that by picking them up, body slammnig them down (all in the headlock), and laying on them so they don't go anywhere/get footing.

The rest is dramatic silliness.

Dave

Dude, as well as being some seriously good advice that's one of the funniest things Ive ever read.You should write this stuff professionaly.

 

[RRouuselot]

I find Korean arts better suited for defense against dogs.....mainly because Koreans eat dog. :ultracool

 

[An Eternal Student]

Would'nt that make them more suitable for attacking them :ultracool

 

[*sic]

haha from Adepts post about choking out a dog, classic.


that would feel so strange, anyways dogs are bad news to come up against, some of them are damn quick, hunting dogs are insane to deal with, i would not like to be the one on the teeth end of one.

 

[someguy]

Sorry but I still don't see how pulling a dogs legs front legs will effect the heart in such a way to make it bust. Perhaps my logic is flawed but I just don't see how it works. Perhaps some one could explain ho wit would work to me.
Dunno but maybe I'm just understanding what is being said wrong.

 

[Adept]

Sorry but I still don't see how pulling a dogs legs front legs will effect the heart in such a way to make it bust.

It wont. The dogs knees will snap before the rib cage is affected.