De-buffing the Myth of Richard III

[Sukerkin]

Held in possibly the deepest historical disdain of any English monarch, it has long been the position of scholars that the image of Richard the Third is at best biased and at worst a smear campaign that has endured for centuries. This is a great little article setting out the edited highlights of the explosive political landscape of the time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21083005

 

[celtic_crippler]

Shakespeare involved in propaganda! Say it ain't so! LOL

Interesting read. Thanks!

 

[Xue Sheng]

I like Shakespeare, the last couple of days I have been watching shows about his history, but I know his plays are not historical fact too. Some are taken pretty much directly from the Queen’s men (of which I believe Shakespeare was one of) who were pretty much traveling propagandist for Queen Elizabeth, or at least that is what I have been lead to believe. I was also looking at some of the history of Richard III Friday night too

I find the history of Britain fascinating, although admittedly I do not know as much about it as I want to, heck the only date in western civilization I can remember is 1066 and the Battle of Hastings. I also have read Shakespeare, but again, admittedly not as much as I would like too. But since I own pretty much the entire collection I guess I should start

I skimmed the article but you can be assured I will read in it full tomorrow, I will print it out so I can read it. I have a problem reading long articles in the web, it needs to be on paper

 

[Tez3]

Richard has long been a hero of mine and here in North Yorkshire they have never believed the lies that abound about him. I don't blame Shakespeare though, I wouldn't fancy trying to champion the Tudor's greatest enemy either!
Richard was betrayed by The Earl of Nothumberland (a Percy), the only way they could bring him down. The Percys damn them are still going strong up in Northumberland (I had a row with the current Duchess at an MMA fight night she put on, it was done badly but what can you expect from an avaricious and miserable family) and I shall be really annoyed if Pippa Middleton marries the Percy heir.
Richard was certainly one of the better kings England had, certainly far better than the nasty Tudors ( who were responsible ffor so much bloodshed especially in the north of England which Henry the Eighth never forgave for their support for the Plantagenets). Richard has left us and through us to the Americans a valuble legacy.

http://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/greyfriars/myth

"Richard was particularly keen to uphold the law of the land and to ensure that it was made available to all ranks of society. His first act as king was to summon his judges and command that justice be administered impartially and without prejudice or corruption. In December 1483 he initiated the Court of Requests, a system of legal aid which enabled those who could not afford representation to have their grievances heard.
At his parliament in January 1484 Richard revised England's rudimentary bond system so that it provided the same protections on arrest that we enjoy today as bail - a measure granting conditional freedom until conviction, designed to allow the accused to protect himself and his family against many widespread abuses such as the unlawful seizure of his property in his absence. Richard also introduced the use of English in many contexts, including his courts of law, where previously French and Latin were the official languages."

 

[Xue Sheng]

I wouldn't fancy trying to champion the Tudor's greatest enemy either!

Not in Elizabethan England.... nope...uhuh...no way...not a chance...going against anything Tudor then was not a good..or healthy...idea

 

[granfire]

Not in Elizabethan England.... nope...uhuh...no way...not a chance...going against anything Tudor then was not a good..or healthy...idea

I think going against royalty was - unless you had a big sword and a nice army - never a good idea...



Alas...does this article suggest that the Tudors offed the princes? (poor saps they were...)

 

[Tez3]

Perhaps the story of the two princes in the Tower is the biggest lie of all, it would have been easy for Richard to have them spirited away to safety either abroad or somewhere safe in England. I doubt there was ever a need for Richard to kill them, they had been declared illegitimate not just by him, the person who they were a threat too would have been Henry the Seventh who married their sister to ensure he had a 'right' to the title of king. He couldn't have princes wandering around. Being sent to the Tower didn't mean they were locked up,it was also used as a castle to house important guests, it's a very big place. When Henry the Seventh came to power after Richard's death, as is usual he began a campaign of lies about how cruel Richard had been etc etc but he said nothing about the Princes until a year or more after Richard's death, then he accused him of the murder's so it's quite likely that if they were murdered he was the guilty one, the other scenerio is that they had been hidden too well and after a year of looking for them decided to say they were dead, either would have suited him because other than marrying the Princes' sister he had no claim to the throne.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Fascinating read. Thanks. I'm from a branch of the Earl of Dondonalds tree so I've always had an interest in the history of the area.

 

[Tez3]

Fascinating read. Thanks. I'm from a branch of the Earl of Dondonalds tree so I've always had an interest in the history of the area.

They would have been a bit further up in those days and at war with England lol. The Cochrans have a fascinating history all of their own though and the seat still survives today.

 

[Dirty Dog]

They would have been a bit further up in those days and at war with England lol. The Cochrans have a fascinating history all of their own though and the seat still survives today.

Oh yes. The Earl of Dundonald is also the Chief of Clan Cochrane and various other sundry titles (you know how the nobility is... always collecting another title).

We're not STILL at war, though, so you and Suk don't need to worry that I'll come steal your cattle.

 

[Tez3]

It's just been announced on the one o'clock news that the bones found under the car park are those of Richard. I hope he's now going to be reburied with honours, I shall go certainly to and pay my respects. It should be York Minster, I hope the soft southerners don't keep him. His home was here.

 

[Sukerkin]

Quite agree, Tez :nods:. The man should rest in the region he governed. Maybe some of the tarnish can be taken off his name too.

 

[Xue Sheng]

We're not STILL at war, though, so you and Suk don't need to worry that I'll come steal your cattle.

A branch of my family got kickout for Scotland for that.... and...well...other things......darn that James I :uhyeah:

 

[Tez3]

A branch of my family got kickout for Scotland for that.... and...well...other things......darn that James I :uhyeah:

My people got kicked out by Edward the First in 1290 and weren't allowed back into the country until Oliver Cromwell took power 350 years later. Edward btw was known as the 'Hammer of the Scots'

 

[Xue Sheng]

My people got kicked out by Edward the First in 1290 and weren't allowed back into the country until Oliver Cromwell took power 350 years later. Edward btw was known as the 'Hammer of the Scots'

Mine went to Ireland, where they stayed for a while, and then they left because there were an awful lot of people that wanted them dead (Catholics mostly) they then went to Canada....and...people wanted to kill them (again Catholics) so the went to America and stayed, apparently no one wanted to kill them there...that and they started marrying Germans

 

[Tez3]

Mine went to Ireland, where they stayed for a while, and then they left because there were an awful lot of people that wanted them dead (Catholics mostly) they then went to Canada....and...people wanted to kill them (again Catholics) so the went to America and stayed, apparently no one wanted to kill them there...that and they started marrying Germans

I blame the Tudors, between them all they managed to massacres a great many people from all religions and nationalities.

My daughter wants to start a campaign to have Richard the Third brought home to Middleham. York would be good but Middleham was his home ( it's my daughter's too and she was named for Richard's daughter, not by his wife though, he had a son John too)
This is where he should go.
http://www.britannia.com/tours/yorksmon/middleham.html

http://www.middlehamonline.com/page4.htm

 

[Xue Sheng]

Finally got to read the entire article, thank you for linking it, I hope that any historical inaccuracies about Richard III are corrected. His vilification was most certainly convenient for Henry VII and the continuation of that was awfully good for the Tudors in General.

Question, is there any truth to the whole soothsayer thing the spur and Richard III's head hitting that spot, after he was dead.

 

[aedrasteia]

Held in possibly the deepest historical disdain of any English monarch, it has long been the position of scholars that the image of Richard the Third is at best biased and at worst a smear campaign that has endured for centuries. This is a great little article setting out the edited highlights of the explosive political landscape of the time

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21083005

And Josephine Tey: The Daughter of Time. (1951) Brilliant investigative history disguised as a crime novel.

Vindiction and confirmation for a great writer. see wikipedia.

 

[K-man]

It's just been announced on the one o'clock news that the bones found under the car park are those of Richard. I hope he's now going to be reburied with honours, I shall go certainly to and pay my respects. It should be York Minster, I hope the soft southerners don't keep him. His home was here.

On the news here it was announced that the remains would be interred at Leicester. :asian:

 

[Tez3]

On the news here it was announced that the remains would be interred at Leicester. :asian:

I know, that's sad, he should come home to us.