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My nephew up in Michigan pickup a flyer for this. So my brother signed him up.

My brother thinks the instructor is full-of-himself as he is about 20 and claims to be a master. (my brothers words). My sister-in-law just wants my nephew to get involved in something as he is a bit of an introvert. And the class time is convenient for her to drop him off on her way to work.

Does anyone around Ann Arbor or Detroit have any experience with this school system? It appears they have a number of classes in that area.

No weapons are taught to the students and per the instructor 'only certain master's receive training with weapons'. They do not participate in tournaments - (no big deal). My brother said the kids were running around, and not required to show respect in the class.

Lots of talking, little training, seemed soft according to my brother. He'd rather switch him into a real school, but right now just trying to get the kid to get excited about karate...he thinks this may have been a bad first choice.
 
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Baytor said:
Based only on what I saw at the website, and your description, it doesn't look very promising to me.

Here's a link to a related page.
http://members.tripod.com/sanchin_style/
Oh my goodness! This does appear rather soft. Maybe its good for someone, but I think I'll see about helping my sister-in-law understand a little more about good schools from the ones who order their credentials from e-bay.

If I can get up there in the next couple weeks I'll see if I can catch his class. They only work out for 1 hour once a week. Hardly enough time to train for anything serious.
 

Cruentus

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I don't what this guys school is like, but I will say that I dislike most watered down martial arts programs. I understand that they are supposed to be "family" oriented schools, and are designed to maintain a "feel-good" atmosphere and be good for the self-esteem and all that.

I think that in application, though, a lot of these places actually end up being bad for the self-esteem in the long run if a kid grows up and were to try to get serious in the martial arts only to find that what they have been studying is not of good quality. It is even worse for the self-esteem if the child spends all this time and energy in karate class only to not be able to handle himself when the neighborhood bully decides to target him, as what often happends. Plus, a lot of "feel-good" places can be very cult-like in nature and atmosphere which is scary when you think about it. Not only is a cult-like atmosphere not a good environment to be around as a young kid, but you really have to watch for unethical behavior from instructors in these places.

The upside is that there are some schools out there that can offer training that is a positive and fun experience for kids, but that also offers legitimate training as well. There are schools that can empower a kid with good values and the tools they will need for personal safety. If they are approached by the neighborhood bully, or worse if they are approached by an adult who wants to hurt them or kidnap them, they have the tools to handle themselves. On top of the right tools, they get to interact with other kids and have a good time. All this is very good for a kids self-esteem, and can be a very positive experience.

I think a good rule of thumb is that when looking for a martial arts school for a kid, one should check it out as if it would be suited for an adult as well. Check the instructors credentials and make sure they are legit. Get some feedback and make sure that they are equiped to teach the basics of personal safety to adults (many schools are not). In my opinion, if one can't teach the basics of personal safety to adults, then they aren't going to be effective at teaching this to kids either. Personal safety for kids is much harder to teach for many reasons. Also, if an instructor is willing to be vague, dubious, or outright untruthful about their credentials concerning adult programs, then they can't be trusted around children as far as I am concerned.

If the school and instructor(s) pass that litmus test, then check out there kids programs and see if they look like they will be a positive environment. On a side note, illegitimate schools can be just as damaging to the pocketbook as well, particularly because there isn't much value for your dollar. Most schools that teach children in an effective manner are reasonably priced.

I don't teach kids myself, and I am not really in the "traditional" Karate community. But, your brother is welcome to contact me via e-mail. I could get some info from him as to specifics of what he is looking for, how old his son is, etc., and I would be happy to check through my network on an instructor that might be more appropriate for him.

Yours,

Paul Janulis
 
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Thank you. I will pass along your comments and info!
 

punisher73

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I will try and answer any honest questions you might have. I have been involved in Sanchinryu for the past 11yrs. I have also worked in LE and corrections with the local Sheriff Dept. for the last 8 yrs. so I have been exposed to a lot of different MA's, and Sanchinryu is the one I like the best out of all of them.

1) ALL of our programs are run through community education venues and as such, class time is limited to usually 1hr for juniors and 2 hrs for adults/family class once a week. This is intentionally done (using CE) to keep costs down for the students (usually $30 for an 8 week session) so that anyone can study and money will not be an object to prohibit them (as another side note, once you are registered in a class you can visit any other Sanchinryu class for $1 and that money goes to help fund other Sanchinryu programs like Project Safe Child, and senior citizen programs).

2) Respect is a value that is taught in class, but we try and do it in a way that they student learns and understands what respect is and wants to show it instead of demanding it.

Juniors class emphasis is on 3 main things 1) Bullies and how to deal with them 2) Strangers 3) Leadership--learning how to be responsible for yourself and not being a follower and just giving into peer pressure.

Sanchinryu is not for everyone. If you are looking for a hardcore place that runs things in a military fashion you won't find it in our style. If you are looking for a style that treats you more like family and tries to make learning fun than you might like it. Some kids just want the "Power Ranger" flashy stuff and think that is "real karate", and you won't find anything flashy in our style either. It is all simple moves that work, nothing complicated or flashy about anything we do.

I don't what this guys school is like, but I will say that I dislike most watered down martial arts programs. I understand that they are supposed to be "family" oriented schools, and are designed to maintain a "feel-good" atmosphere and be good for the self-esteem and all that.
There is nothing watered down about the program or what the kids learn. They will learn the basics, combinations and forms just as any adult would. Scenarios will change for what a kid will be more likely to face, just as the vary for a woman, senior citizen, or a man there are unique things to face to each and lots of things that are true no matter who you are.

No weapons are taught to the students and per the instructor 'only certain master's receive training with weapons'.
Emphasis is on the empty hand skills and mastering those first. All weapons work is interchangeable with the skills you learn empty handed. It is not introduced earlier so the basic foundation is not ignored for something that the student wouldn't truly be able to use. A weapon is viewed as an extension of your own bodily weapons if it is viewed as seperate than you will rely on it as a crutch instead of as a tool to be used.

They do not participate in tournaments - (no big deal)
Even though you stated it wasn't a big deal, I thought I would still address this point. The reason is NOT because what we do is "too deadly" and we would get disqualified (I hear that argument alot). The reason is due to learning environment, CGM Dearman studied many styles that did compete and others that didn't. What he found was the schools that didn't compete or have an emphasis on tournaments had a more open and accepting attitude towards students and it encouraged learning.

I think that in application, though, a lot of these places actually end up being bad for the self-esteem in the long run
Sanchinryu was actually picked in a study by Michigan State, and found that styles like Sanchinryu that have the noncompetitive atmosphere actually produced more well adjusted kids.
 

Cruentus

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Interesting. Thanks for the response. I have a few questions myself, as I know little about your style.

#1. Who are you? I see nothing in your profile that would indicate your name or contact information. Are you located in MI too? Are you a Sanchinryu instructor?

#2. Where can I find something about the history of your style, where it came from, it's founder, etc.? Some starter questions: are you guys a "traditional" style? What culture does the style come from? When was it founded?

#3. You've stated you've worked with "LE and corrections" with the local sheriffs dept.? What kind of work and which one? One could say that I am tight with some of the county departments and department trainers in my area, although I make no claims to teaching them in any official capacity. In fact, I actually intent to learn from some of the trainers regarding shooting tactics. So I am personally interested in what work you say you do through your style.

#4. What sources have you guys drawn from to teach your "project safe child" programs?

#5. Give me an example what safety precautions you would tell a 11 year old child to handle strangers, say, in handling a situation where they are going door to sell popcorn for boyscouts? Also, could I have an example of what measures you teach a preteen to take if they are home alone?

#6. Are you guys mostly Michigan based, or are there schools and satelite orgs. in other states and countries? Where is the headquarters located?

#7. How long does it take to become instructor certified through your org.?

#8.
Sanchinryu was actually picked in a study by Michigan State, and found that styles like Sanchinryu that have the noncompetitive atmosphere actually produced more well adjusted kids.

Although I can see how a less-competitive atmosphere would produce more well adjusted kids, especially with kids who have self-esteem issues or learning disabilities, I am very interested in seeing this info. for myself. What group did the study, and where could I get more information on this?

Thanks "Punisher73."

I am always looking to learn about the different martial arts programs in my area, so that I have a network of schools that I can recommend if what I do does not fit the needs of someone who is inquiring. Yet, I can't say I know much about "Sanchinryu." So I appreciate you making yourself available to answer questions here on this board.

Thanks again,

Paul Janulis
 
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Punisher73,

How does a one hour a week class help a student develop the necessary skills to progress through a martial art? Respect and self-confidence? Do you have long-term retention of students?

Do you have a time to advance? How does this work when a student attends once a week? A young child will likely not recall skills if they only are introduced to them at once a week intervals. 3 times a week is a lot for under 8 kids, but there should at least be a twice a week availability.

You say a kid can visit another class for a dollar, why not just enroll for two days a week from the beginning or is this a way to keep CE out of the loop?

You mentioned weapons were not taught because you want to emphasis the 'empty-hand' skills. Ok, sounds good, but if you have studied styles that do compete and ever watch the kids, you'd see that some of these kids have more skill than the adults. Weapons training, particularly when learning a bo or jo is very similar to tools kids should use today (rake, shovel, broom etc..). A straight weapon helps to show body lines, and motion ranges when done properly - it should enhance empty-hand technique.

What do you do when you disarm a BG and obtain his weapon? Throw it down? A 4th Kyu should be qualified to see this training.

I haven't heard of this style before my nephew joined, and I am curious about it. Their websites just don't provide much information but do sell lots of things, so it is nice and strange to actually run into someone who participates in this style and can maybe educate others about it, because the things I have heard (prior to you) thus far make it seem like an activity not a MA style.
 

punisher73

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#1. Who are you? I see nothing in your profile that would indicate your name or contact information. Are you located in MI too? Are you a Sanchinryu instructor?
I don't fill out profiles with personal information, I'm just a shy guy who likes my privacy. :) Yes, I am in Michigan (Calhoun County). Yes, I am also a Sanchinryu instructor.

#2. Where can I find something about the history of your style, where it came from, it's founder, etc.? Some starter questions: are you guys a "traditional" style? What culture does the style come from? When was it founded?
The history of our style is that it was started/founded by CGM Dearman. He formally and informally studied alot of different arts and through his training and real life experience in fights took what he learned and developed an approach and strategies that worked in those fights. It's roots are Okinawan in nature and is a fluid style emphasizing low kicks and snapping punches instead of lockout thrusting ones. It is structured like a "traditional" style, if you will, with a set curriculum of basics/combinations/forms/katas/weapons. It was founded in the late 70's and when CGM Dearman declared it as a style he did it the old fashioned way and took on all challenges to show the legitimacy of the style.

#3. You've stated you've worked with "LE and corrections" with the local sheriffs dept.? What kind of work and which one?
I didn't state I worked with, I said I work IN. I worked the first 6 yrs of my career in the corrections/jail aspect of the department (Calhoun Country). Our jail houses on average 550 inmates. We are a direct supervision style facility which means it is one deputy per 56 inmates. I worked in all areas of the jail (housing-min thru max, intake and admin seg.) The last 2 yrs I have been assigned to the Transport Division (court house security, circuit court "bailiff", as well as picking up and transporting inmates all over the state. We also execute warrants from time to time). I have also been a certified training officer for new deputies for 6 yrs. Being on transport also means that we get sent to all the training since none of the road guys ever want to do it. :)



#4 What sources have you guys drawn from to teach your "project safe child" programs?
Many of the students in Sanchinryu are police officers, correction officers, DRs in psychology, attorneys. All of that has helped to shape/influence the programs.


#5. Give me an example what safety precautions you would tell a 11 year old child to handle strangers, say, in handling a situation where they are going door to sell popcorn for boyscouts? Also, could I have an example of what measures you teach a preteen to take if they are home alone?
That is a REALLY generic question. Off the top of my head, I would want to know where the child lived...does he live in an upscale suburb where everyone knows everyone? Does he live in a big apartment complex? Does he live in an inner city environment? How large an area is he going to be covering? Some generic things would be 1) If you dont know the area or the people, a parent or grandparent should be with them at that age. 2) Never go inside for any reason and always stay on the front porch. 3) If you are able give your kid a cell phone to be able to contact you for any reason. 4) Go over scenarios of what happens if a car pulls up to you and wants to talk to you (also cover common ploys to kidnap, such as "can you help me find", "Ive lost my puppy" "Ill give you some money if you help me...") 5) Areas where they can go to for help or run to that are safe (ie: neighbors house that you know, etc.) 6) What to yell to get attention "No, youre not my mom/dad, help" gets more attention than just a "No" that way people know exactly whats going on. 7) How to run safely and smartly to use your environment to help protect you.

As for the preteen at home. I would cover phone etiquette (never say you are by yourself, never give your name, number, or any other personal info over the phone when someone calls you up). Keep all doors locked, dont answer the door for anyone you dont know. Provide a list of phone numbers of people to contact in case of emergency. I am also a big fan of having a "safe room" that would have a cell phone in it and the list of numbers there for easy access. Questions that would come up with parents for discussion with them... Are they allowed to have a friend over? Are they allowed to go over to a neighbors house to visit? Have you talked to the neighbors in the immediate area to get to know them.

Im not trying to avoid the issue, but one of my biggest beliefs is that "self-defense" for kids starts at home and should involve the parents and have them very involved in the planning of these things.

#6. Are you guys mostly Michigan based, or are there schools and satellite orgs. in other states and countries? Where is the headquarters located?
Mostly based in Michigan but there are schools in other states and countries (no not the guy in England that calls what he does Sanchinryu though) The headquarters is also located here in Michigan.

#7. How long does it take to become instructor certified through your org.?
It takes on average 4-5 yrs to reach shodan level. After that you are paired with another instructor and work with them. Your progress is evaluated and then you are certified, there is not a set time for this part of the process though.

Although I can see how a less-competitive atmosphere would produce more well adjusted kids, especially with kids who have self-esteem issues or learning disabilities, I am very interested in seeing this info. for myself. What group did the study, and where could I get more information on this?
To be honest it has been about 3-4 yrs since the Psych. dept. at MSU did the study. I would have to ask and get more specific info for you on that. I just remember that they did they study and the hypothesis.
 

punisher73

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A young child will likely not recall skills if they only are introduced to them at once a week intervals. 3 times a week is a lot for under 8 kids, but there should at least be a twice a week availability.
If a skill can't be learned and practiced on their own than the skill is too complicated to work in real life anyways (not saying that they have it mastered but they should have the basic mechanics down). It is better to have a few simple tools well learned than a whole bunch of tools that are only touched on the surface. So in all the classes there is a heavy emphasis on the basics. I think that once a week is enough to progress, if the student wants to learn. There in lies the crux of the matter. I have had students that don't want to be there and it is just a drop off so their parents get some free time and it wouldn't matter if I had class 5 times a week they wouldn't change. On the other hand, I have had students that really wanted to learn and be there and have learned the material very well (at home practice is a must for any MA). I also give my students a means to contact me with training questions at any time during the week that they may have. As far as retention rates, students that wanted to learn have stayed and the students that wanted to learn "Power Ranger" stuff like on TV don't stay.

The other problem is, if we could have a school for free 2-3 times a week it would be great but many community ed programs are shutting down around the state and want outrageous fees to rent space. It is a trade off and classes are kept to once a week to make it affordable.

What do you do when you disarm a BG and obtain his weapon? Throw it down? A 4th Kyu should be qualified to see this training.
How did you disarm the bad guy in the first place? More than likely it is because you already understand the weapon and how it is used. So when you disarm the BG you will have a fundemental understanding of how to use it.

 

Cruentus

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Thanks for your answers. I think I have most of what I need.

As to the issue that started this thread, if the parents are not satisfied with the system or the instructor and contact me, then obviously because they are unsatisfied with the Sanchinryu program I will be recommending someone else. Do not take this the wrong way; not every program is for everyone. I always try to have contacts available because I know that what I do is not for everyone, so I like to be able to refer people to instructors who will fit their needs if what I do is not for them.

One last couple of things, if that is O.K.

I never heard of Mr. Dearman. What does 'CGM' as in CGM Dearman stand for? Is Mr. Dearman still alive, and if so how old is he? Is there a resource where I can get some info on his personal background, as the website doesn't seem to have any info on the founder of the style that I could find (which I found odd, btw).

Also, and this may sound kind of stupid, but who is that young man in all the photo's on the website. I only see photo's of him, and he looks kind of young, maybe under 22 years old? Is he a high ranking person...as it looks as if he don's quite a few stripes on his belt?

With the above questions answered, that out to cover it for me.

Thanks again.

Also, open invitation for any of your guys to stop by a class or an event that I am doing.

Yours,

Paul Janulis
 

punisher73

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As to the issue that started this thread, if the parents are not satisfied with the system or the instructor and contact me, then obviously because they are unsatisfied with the Sanchinryu program I will be recommending someone else. Do not take this the wrong way; not every program is for everyone.
No offense taken. As I stated in one of my posts Sanchinryu is not for everyone. That is the beauty of MA's, is that there is something out there for everyone. Even different schools of the same MA might not be for everone and you have to find what fits your lifestyle and personality.

CGM is short for chief grandmaster. CGM Dearman is going to celebrate his 50th year of consistant martial arts study this year, and he is in his late 50's. He is a private individual and doesn't post his bio all over the place. He also would prefer to have students focus on Sanchinryu and it's merits instead of focusing on his past and what he did.

The young man in the photo is his youngest son who is in his late 20's. He is a good friend of mine and a great person. He has literally studied Sanchinryu his whole life and commits a great deal of time and effort to his training and his skill is very remarkable.

The website is designed to give an overview of the programs offered to students and a place for students to get supplies, and Sanchinryu's approach and philosophy. I'm not sure what other updates they might have in mind or what that might include.
 

MichiganTKD

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The belt the son is wearing in the flyer pic, white with a red stripe, means he is a 6th Dan black belt. In his late 20's? C'mon. What kind of organization would promote someone 28 years old to 6th Dan? We have 6th Dans in our Tae Kwon Do organization, and they are all pushing 50.
 

MichiganTKD

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I don't care how many years he has been practicing, noone should be 6th Dan at 28 years old. Even if he is the Founder's son.
I seriously doubt the guy has been practicing martial since he has been born. Even starting at an early age, serious martial arts practice requires physical and mental skills children are simply unable to do. Hypothetically, if he started at age 4-5, it would still be little more than a game or recreation at that age.
For the record, My Tae Kwon Do Instructor's son is 4th Dan, and in his early 30's. My Aikido Grandmaster's son is 6th Dan, and he is in his early 40's. So a 28 year old 6th Dan? I don't think so.
 

punisher73

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And Jigoro Kano founded his own style at age 28, not sure what the point is here.

My Aikido Grandmaster's son is 6th Dan, and he is in his early 40's.
Koichi Tohei was given his 10th degree by Ueshiba at around the same age as your Grandmasters's son's age (he was 49, and had studied for 30 yrs).

I am not going to waste time in a discussion about the merits of what you think someone's rank should or shouldn't be. I have trained with him and am very impressed with both him as a person and as a martial artist and have NO question that his heart and skill reflect the rank he is wearing.
 
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MichiganTKD said:
I don't care how many years he has been practicing, noone should be 6th Dan at 28 years old. Even if he is the Founder's son.
I seriously doubt the guy has been practicing martial since he has been born. Even starting at an early age, serious martial arts practice requires physical and mental skills children are simply unable to do. Hypothetically, if he started at age 4-5, it would still be little more than a game or recreation at that age.
For the record, My Tae Kwon Do Instructor's son is 4th Dan, and in his early 30's. My Aikido Grandmaster's son is 6th Dan, and he is in his early 40's. So a 28 year old 6th Dan? I don't think so.
Looks pretty young to be 28, but maybe that was a photoshop touchup ;)

Mastery is a lifelong journey and the masters of old days actually fought life and death battles as a part of their culture and for village peace. Kids today do not face these same challenges. A bully at school isn't the same as a BG coming into your village to kill the men and rape the women.

Unless of course he was a street kid (like a runaway to get away from foster care, or drugged-out parents, etc.. raised himself). - then it would be almost similar.

Every style does things differently and as it was mentioned, this style isn't for everyone.

Tulisan, I gave your info to my brother so if he can 'permission' from his wife, he's going to follow-up with you for some suggestions. (He's doesn't have a computer at home, so give him a little time to get to the library, he will).

BTW, MichiganTKD, where did you find on the site he is a 6th degree? I didn't see anything specific on the site about ranks, belts, etc. I must have missed that part :( Even the OKU HERE shows Masters (6-9th) with 'black' belts and maybe some script.
 
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First off, I am a student of Sanchin Ryu, and I don't want to confuse anyone into thinking I'm bashing my chosen style. However I am curious myself about the history, or roots, of the style, as I believe knowing it will make my MA experience a more holistic one. Many of the questions raised here are ones that I am in search of answers to myself. Any questions to my Sensei or other Senseis has only been answered in a vague manner, very similar to Punisher73's replies.


I don't believe you truely know who you are until you have figured out where you've been. History is important.

Sanchin Ryu really is a good style that has it's merits.
 

Cruentus

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Shidan said:
Tulisan, I gave your info to my brother so if he can 'permission' from his wife, he's going to follow-up with you for some suggestions. (He's doesn't have a computer at home, so give him a little time to get to the library, he will).

Oh...he doesn't have to sweat trying to get to a computer, Shidan. Just have him call me if that is easier.

Yours,

Paul Janulis
248-722-1634
 

MichiganTKD

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Dr. Kano was also a genius, lived in a different era, and didn't receive 6th Dan at 28 from his father. Somehow, I doubt the 28 year old 6th Dan is a genius. Lucky to have a father willing to bestow senior rank on him at a young age perhaps.
 

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