How Do I Quit?

Kaygee

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Hi. I am looking for some feedback from the community here, as hopefully someone has been in my position before, or they can relate and can lend some good advice. Please read the full post before you comment.

I have been attending my Tang Soo Do classes for 2 1/2 years now. I liked the art and the school, and I still like the art, but I would like to move on to something more "practical" and phycially demanding such as Muay Thai/Boxing/BJJ....ya know, MMA. I have taken some trial classes at different school and love the MMA stuff! I cannot believe how sore I am when I leave the places, and the actual fact that I have targets to hit helps a lot. Not to mention, fighting other students will help me in real life situations, should they arise.....that of course, is my opinion anyway.

I am leaving my school not only becuase the training has gotten stale and boring, but many other reasons as well. When I first came to the school, we had about 35 students in the children's classes and about 15 in the "adult" classes. Now I put the word adult in quotations because the adult class was made up by mostly all 14-16 year old kids. There was one 58 year old guy in there. I am 38, I was 36 when I joined. My younger brother, who is 6 years younger than me, joined with me at the same time.

And so we began our crusade. We trained and I made every single class. Not once did I miss one of the classes that they offered. We had a blast at first. I would take first place in forms all of the time in tournaments. I also became a teacher like student at the school, as when I acheived 3rd gup, I would teach the private children's classes.

But things started to change. The children's class shrunk to under 15 so they had to combine the two children's classes together. My brother had his 2nd child in April, so naturally, he did not attend class. Now, take into account that we both received our 3rd gup rank in December of 2011 and there is a 6 month minimum requirement before you can test for 2nd gup. He came back in early May, but when it was time for him to get a test paper, they did not give him one because he "didn't have enough classes". His technique and knowledge for the rank were just fine! He practiced at home while he was taking care of his new baby boy (he already had another 2 year old boy which is handful on its own) and helped around the house while his wife recovered. So my brother did not think that was fair, so he quit.

Now, there aren't any contracts at my school, but they throw in a loophole here. The regular charge per month is $99. But, if you elect to pay electronically and have the money taken out of your bank account automatically at the end of every month, they drop the price to $90. The catch? You can only quit if you come into the school and tell them you are going to quit. My brother did not do that.....he called and just told them to stop billing him. When the school "owner" stated that he should wait to talk to the head instructor, my brother told him that there was no reason to speak to him and to stop billing him and the call was ended.

We have two masters in my school. The main master is 59 years old and works 70 hours a week. He usually isn't there and when he is, it is very normal for him to get up and leave in the middle of class becuase he has to go to work. The other master is 27 years old and is the son of the owner. He is a great teacher, but a very cocky person. Many people have quit because of him. I have the type of personality that shakes that type of thing off though.

Now, to go back to the children's class and the decline in attendance, the "adult" class has suffered just as much. We had another student join over a year ago, and he has been the last student to join since. All of the students above me have since quit and our numbers in the adult class are down to 6. Usually, it is only me, the guy under me that just joined a little over a year ago, and one or two black belts. Because my master works so often, me and the guy under me offered to make a website. The head master was all for it! The other master and the owner however, were not. They fought us tooth and nail over it and did not want to advertise. Also, the light for the school never worked. We were told by the owner that it doesn't work and it doesn't need to work. This light is on a an EXTREMELY busy street and intersection. I mean, you are stuck at the red light for a few minutes. So me and the guy that is right below me found the landlord, who showed us how to switch the lights on. Even though we did that, they are still always turned off when we come in. The website is in limbo because my master needs to look over some things, but he has been saying that for nearly 5 months now.

I have completely lost intrest now. There is no one at the classes anymore, as last week it was just me and one other student. They only offer two classes during the week and Saturday, which can cause friction between my wife and I. It also causes isseus at my work as well. For example, on Monday the 1st, it was my brother in law's birthday. There was a tournament coming up on the 6th, so I knew I had to go and practice, so I missed the birthday dinner for him in place of class. I was then offered to stay and work overtime at my work that Thursday, the 4th, but I knew I couldn't do it because that would mean that I would have not practiced for the tournament since Monday.

(By the way, I won first place in forms and fighting in the tournament)

The lack of options for class, along with the decline of fellow students, along with the constant fighting to try to get some sort of advertising going along with the fact that I am in a class with no other adults over 15 (I cannot communicate with them. I have kids their age), has made me not want to go back. I really have no more intrest in fulfilling minimum requirement times. And yes, I know, it takes a long time to become a black belt, but I cannot do anymore Passai's....I can't stand there and kick in the air anymore and pretend someone is there. We have all sorts of bags and such to use as targets, but, even though I requested it, they refuse to use them.

Now, if you go back to the paragragh where I explain how my brother quit, I will tell you that some students, and the younger master, constantly make fun of him quitting. They state things like "he couldn't hack it because we wouldn't test him" and "he was too cowardly to even come in and tell us that he quit." I don't wanna be that person that is being made fun of for years and years to come for future students in that school.

So my question is, how should I quit? Should I do it the way my brother did it? Or should I go in and tell them that I quit. You know the only reason they make that "deal" is so they can try to talk you out of it. If my master is there, it is going to be really hard to look him in the eye when he asks me "why" and I don't want to be put in that position, because I really respect the guy and he was never anything but nice to me.

What do you all think?

Thanks!

EDIT: And by the way, the school is the best traditional Tang Soo Do school anywhere remotely close to my area, so I would highly recommend it to anyone that likes this sort of thing.
 
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clfsean

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Just quit. Just tell them you have your own reasons & to stop billing your account.
 

dancingalone

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Sounds like this school no longer fits your needs. I would block out an hour of my time and go quit in person. Why in person? Well, it might be a good experience for you if you can pleasantly explain to both gents why you prefer other training opportunities now: rigor, more age appropriate partners, etc. In turn, it would let them understand what they need to improve if they want to cater to your demographic - which might not be at all :) . If the school owners are professional, neither of you have to burn bridges.
 

WC_lun

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Does it really matter if the their make fun of you when you aren't there? I mean seriously, if they are going to be douchebags, why would you care what they think? Why would you want to train with such people?

You are paying for a service. If that service is not what you expect, why continue to pay for the service> You say you have been teaching classes. Have you been paid for that? have you recieved anything from the school for teaching other than its expected or an atta boy? You know what you should do. Tell them you are quiting the school. If they ask why, be honest. If they take exception to it, tough cookies. Make sure you go to your bank and end the debit on your account. If you don't the school can contimue to withdraw money and it could take a law suit to get it back.
 

harlan

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I'd do it in writing, CC it to my lawyer (more for the owner's attention), and keep it simple. A follow up call, maybe.

The reason being is that I have 'done the right and honorable thing' in the past - and it was a complete waste of time. Folks that don't listen while you are there are not inclined to listen on your way out.
 
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Kaygee

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Does it really matter if the their make fun of you when you aren't there? I mean seriously, if they are going to be douchebags, why would you care what they think? Why would you want to train with such people?

You are paying for a service. If that service is not what you expect, why continue to pay for the service> You say you have been teaching classes. Have you been paid for that? have you recieved anything from the school for teaching other than its expected or an atta boy? You know what you should do. Tell them you are quiting the school. If they ask why, be honest. If they take exception to it, tough cookies. Make sure you go to your bank and end the debit on your account. If you don't the school can contimue to withdraw money and it could take a law suit to get it back.

Thank you for your reply and your advise.
No, I haven't received anything for teaching. And I honestly don't care...I was doing it for the school and to spread the art. I was really, really into this!
 

MJS

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Well, of course they're going to make you feel bad. They're a business, you're giving them money monthly and if you go, thats X number of $$ every month, they're no longer getting.

So, to answer your question: I would go and talk to the owner of the school. I'd find out when he's going to be there, and talk to him. In addition to that, I'd also send 2 letters, 1 to the owner and 1 to the billing company. I'd send both of them certified mail, that way someone has to sign for it, and can't say that they never received anything. Most billing companies require a 30day notice, so I'd make sure that you do this within 30days, if not a bit sooner.

As far as people talking trash about you....who cares. I've left schools before. Whether poeple have talked about me or not....I really didn't care. I had my reasons that I left, and they were valid reasons. It wasn't like I was making things up.

Good luck with everything! :)
 
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Kaygee

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Sounds like this school no longer fits your needs. I would block out an hour of my time and go quit in person. Why in person? Well, it might be a good experience for you if you can pleasantly explain to both gents why you prefer other training opportunities now: rigor, more age appropriate partners, etc. In turn, it would let them understand what they need to improve if they want to cater to your demographic - which might not be at all :) . If the school owners are professional, neither of you have to burn bridges.

Thank you. Sounds like a really good way to go. The mature way anyway. But who wants to be mature anymore? LoL! Seriously, thank you!
 
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Kaygee

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I'd do it in writing, CC it to my lawyer (more for the owner's attention), and keep it simple. A follow up call, maybe.

The reason being is that I have 'done the right and honorable thing' in the past - and it was a complete waste of time. Folks that don't listen while you are there are not inclined to listen on your way out.

I would really hate to do something like that. But I do agree with the last part of your sentence. Thank you!
 
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Kaygee

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Well, of course they're going to make you feel bad. They're a business, you're giving them money monthly and if you go, thats X number of $$ every month, they're no longer getting.

So, to answer your question: I would go and talk to the owner of the school. I'd find out when he's going to be there, and talk to him. In addition to that, I'd also send 2 letters, 1 to the owner and 1 to the billing company. I'd send both of them certified mail, that way someone has to sign for it, and can't say that they never received anything. Most billing companies require a 30day notice, so I'd make sure that you do this within 30days, if not a bit sooner.

As far as people talking trash about you....who cares. I've left schools before. Whether poeple have talked about me or not....I really didn't care. I had my reasons that I left, and they were valid reasons. It wasn't like I was making things up.

Good luck with everything! :)

Thank you. They charge me on the first day of every month, so I was hoping to quit and be done with it now. I relaly didn't intend on having to get certified letters and such. I haven't even thought about notifying billing companies and such. I guess I will have to get that information when I go in there. I would really hope that they wouldn't charge me when I am no longer there, but I guess I should take all precautions.
 
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Kaygee

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Just quit. Just tell them you have your own reasons & to stop billing your account.
Very to the point, lol. This would be my way to go if my sa bum nim defintely wasn't there. It's going to be him shaking my hand asking me "why" that is going to make it hard.

I am very sentimental!
 

lklawson

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I liked the art and the school, and I still like the art, but I would like to move on to something more "practical" and phycially demanding such as Muay Thai/Boxing/BJJ....ya know, MMA. I have taken some trial classes at different school and love the MMA stuff! I cannot believe how sore I am when I leave the places, and the actual fact that I have targets to hit helps a lot. Not to mention, fighting other students will help me in real life situations, should they arise.....that of course, is my opinion anyway.
Tell them this.

I am leaving my school not only becuase the training has gotten stale and boring
Tell them this too.

My brother had his 2nd child in April, so naturally, he did not attend class. Now, take into account that we both received our 3rd gup rank in December of 2011 and there is a 6 month minimum requirement before you can test for 2nd gup. He came back in early May, but when it was time for him to get a test paper, they did not give him one because he "didn't have enough classes". His technique and knowledge for the rank were just fine!
Dude, this is pretty common. "Time in Grade" and "Minimum Number of Class Sessions" is absolutely standard. Whether or not you, your brother, or anyone else besides the testing instructor thinks your brother's "technique and knowledge" are sufficient is irrelevant. If the instructor wants to wave the Time in Grade rules or do some sort of Batsugan, that's his business. Honestly, at 2nd Gup, maybe you don't know enough to know what you or he lacks? I'm not trying to be a wang here, just being honest.
Now, there aren't any contracts at my school, but they throw in a loophole here. The regular charge per month is $99. But, if you elect to pay electronically and have the money taken out of your bank account automatically at the end of every month, they drop the price to $90. The catch? You can only quit if you come into the school and tell them you are going to quit. My brother did not do that.....he called and just told them to stop billing him. When the school "owner" stated that he should wait to talk to the head instructor, my brother told him that there was no reason to speak to him and to stop billing him and the call was ended.
If the contract states that they must terminate in person, then that's the contract and you have to do it that way. If you don't you might get sued. The suit may or may not have merit and it may or may not get thrown out if you actually go to court, but do you want to have to go through that hassle and expense? If you're paying by CC you might be able to dispute the charges with your CC company, but again, hassle. Just go in and quit.

We have two masters in my school. The main master is 59 years old and works 70 hours a week. He usually isn't there and when he is, it is very normal for him to get up and leave in the middle of class becuase he has to go to work. The other master is 27 years old and is the son of the owner. He is a great teacher, but a very cocky person. Many people have quit because of him. I have the type of personality that shakes that type of thing off though.
So you think the son is a wang and is driving off customers. Don't you think this is information that the owner and head instructor need to know?

Now, to go back to the children's class and the decline in attendance, the "adult" class has suffered just as much. We had another student join over a year ago, and he has been the last student to join since. All of the students above me have since quit and our numbers in the adult class are down to 6. Usually, it is only me, the guy under me that just joined a little over a year ago, and one or two black belts. Because my master works so often, me and the guy under me offered to make a website. The head master was all for it! The other master and the owner however, were not. They fought us tooth and nail over it and did not want to advertise. Also, the light for the school never worked. We were told by the owner that it doesn't work and it doesn't need to work. This light is on a an EXTREMELY busy street and intersection. I mean, you are stuck at the red light for a few minutes. So me and the guy that is right below me found the landlord, who showed us how to switch the lights on. Even though we did that, they are still always turned off when we come in. The website is in limbo because my master needs to look over some things, but he has been saying that for nearly 5 months now.
So you feel unappreciated and taken advantage of. Tell them.

I have completely lost intrest now. There is no one at the classes anymore, as last week it was just me and one other student. They only offer two classes during the week and Saturday, which can cause friction between my wife and I. It also causes isseus at my work as well. For example, on Monday the 1st, it was my brother in law's birthday. There was a tournament coming up on the 6th, so I knew I had to go and practice, so I missed the birthday dinner for him in place of class. I was then offered to stay and work overtime at my work that Thursday, the 4th, but I knew I couldn't do it because that would mean that I would have not practiced for the tournament since Monday.

(By the way, I won first place in forms and fighting in the tournament)
Family first. I totally cancel classes that I teach when it's my kid's birthday, my anniversary, or whatever.

The lack of options for class, along with the decline of fellow students, along with the constant fighting to try to get some sort of advertising going along with the fact that I am in a class with no other adults over 15 (I cannot communicate with them. I have kids their age), has made me not want to go back. I really have no more intrest in fulfilling minimum requirement times. And yes, I know, it takes a long time to become a black belt, but I cannot do anymore Passai's....I can't stand there and kick in the air anymore and pretend someone is there. We have all sorts of bags and such to use as targets, but, even though I requested it, they refuse to use them.
So tell them that the lack of class flexibility, few training partners, and your frustration with the lack of cooperation in advertising along with being bored of doing the forms are reasons why you want to quit.
Now, if you go back to the paragragh where I explain how my brother quit, I will tell you that some students, and the younger master, constantly make fun of him quitting. They state things like "he couldn't hack it because we wouldn't test him" and "he was too cowardly to even come in and tell us that he quit." I don't wanna be that person that is being made fun of for years and years to come for future students in that school.
So tell them that you think it's a wang-wagging move to make fun of people and insult them and that has also added to your decreased desire to be there. Tell them that you don't trust them not to mock you and talk about you behind your back as they are doing to your brother.

They'll do it anyway.

So my question is, how should I quit?
Go in and quit. Tell them as much as you want. I recommend telling them all that I've suggested and then quitting, but, really, you don't have to tell them anything. "I quit. No, I don't feel like telling you why. Stop billing me, I won't be back."

Should I do it the way my brother did it?
Doesn't sound like that worked out so well for him. He got charged more, right?

You know the only reason they make that "deal" is so they can try to talk you out of it.
Just like my Cell Phone carrier, most Health Clubs, and just about anyone else.

If my master is there, it is going to be really hard to look him in the eye when he asks me "why" and I don't want to be put in that position, because I really respect the guy and he was never anything but nice to me.
Then talk to him privately and explain all of this. Maybe he hasn't noticed or has convinced himself it's not happening.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

MJS

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Thank you. They charge me on the first day of every month, so I was hoping to quit and be done with it now. I relaly didn't intend on having to get certified letters and such. I haven't even thought about notifying billing companies and such. I guess I will have to get that information when I go in there. I would really hope that they wouldn't charge me when I am no longer there, but I guess I should take all precautions.

You're free to do as you choose, however, I'm of the mind that when you're dealing with stuff like this, its best to cover all your bases. I've had to do this in the past, and usually, most places to require something in writing. Again, you're free to do as you wish, however, I would not rely on someone else, to tell the billing co. that you wish to stop payments from being taken. IMO, without anything in writing, it comes down to your word against theirs.
 

Steve

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I, like others here, believe that you're paying for a service. Regarding how to quit, there is, in my opinion, no wrong way to do it, presuming that you have no contractual obligations. You're not breaking up with the instructor, or firing him or even telling him you don't like him. You're simply cancelling a service.

Documentation is good, particularly if they have your billing information, or if you believe there's going to be trouble.

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2007/09/03/how-to-quit-a-karate-club/

I love this article, too. Check it out.
 

kodora81

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There's already some good advice here. You mentioned that the hard part will be explaining why you want to leave - other than saying "Thank you for everything you've done for me, but it's time to move on" I don't see why you should feel obligated to explain yourself further. It's your time, your money, and you should train where you please.

I'd suggest biting the bullet and speaking to the head instructor as per your contract. Don't worry about what will be said about you afterwards - people are always going to talk, but keep in mind that people aren't always thinking/talking about us as much as we think they are. They'll move on, just as you will.

Good luck! :)
 
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Kaygee

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@lklawson
I understand about the "minumum time requirements", but they did bump up the guy underneath me by a rank, allowing him to skip three months of training.
Obviously, that means that the ranking system is at the discretion of the master. So, I think my brother got the shaft there. He missed a full month and that's it!
 
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Kaygee

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I just wanted to say that I apprecaite everyone's responses and I thank you very much. I am going to do the hard way of going in and talking to them. It is what it is and I am just going to have to tell them how I feel.

Again, thank you all!!!
 
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Kaygee

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A lot of good points in the article and a convincing argument.

I always enjoyed 24 Fighting Chickens. Hadn't thought about it in a while.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
There is nothing really in there that pertains to my situation with the agreement to go in and quit. Most of their resolutions in this column are to just stop going.
 

Steve

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There is nothing really in there that pertains to my situation with the agreement to go in and quit. Most of their resolutions in this column are to just stop going.
Exactly. Well, sort of. The real message is that you are under no obligation. You don't owe your old school anything. If you go in to talk to the school owner, fine. Just don't do it because you feel obligated to.

Also, the chances of burning bridges are much greater if you go in and have to wade through one last guilt trip/sales pitch. As you said earlier, this will probably be one last chance for them to convince you not to leave. If it becomes a hard sell, there is a very real possibility that the situation will be more volatile than need be.
 

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