Close Quarter Knife Throws

CB Jones

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Looking back...the Baoding Balls is a weird example of an object being interpreted as a weapon.

Thats why I like the hammer example better.

Its a tool that is legal to possess in many circumstances but carried in the right circumstances becomes a weapon in the eyes of the law.
 

JowGaWolf

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Maybe not clear cut but when you say I carry these for self defense it allows for them to possible be classified as such
I'll see if I can ask a lawyer my way. When I read the definition it didn't read that way to me, because anything could be classified as a weapon regardless of declared intent. It's not a weapon "because I say so" If what you say is true, then I would also be in trouble for saying that I carry a drinking straw as a weapon. I fold it and then use I would use it to stab out an attacker's eyes. Or I could say I carry quarters and silver dollars around so I can throw them at my attacker's head and crack his skull, Now I'm in trouble for having quarters and silver dollars as a concealed only because I say that I carry them as weapons.

Based on how you are reading it paper would be an illegal concealed weapon if I carry a sheet of paper for self-defense so I can quickly roll it up and strike the eyes of my attacker. Now I'm going to jail because the paper is now considered a weapon only because I say so. Not because I did what I stated "I can do" but only because I said that I carry paper as a weapon. So from now on when I have paper in my pocket I can be arrested. When I read it like that it doesn't make sense. But when I read it to apply to objects that are commonly used or intended for use as a dangerous weapon then that makes more sense to me in terms of concealed weapons which is what you posted.

In terms of actually using a ream of paper to attack someone. It would be considered a weapon because that's what you used to attack someone, regardless if it's self-defense or criminal assault. If it's used to cause harm then it's going to be said it was used as a weapon

This is a toilet paper shank. It would fall under that definition of "other instrumentality intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon" put this in your pocket and you'll most likely go to jail for a conceal weapon. Here it is clear to see the intended or probable use as a dangerous weapon. There is no other reason why someone would have this on their persons for any other use besides, show a friend, give to a friend, or use as self-defense. The first 2 reason can be easily proven. Simply call the friend and ask. Now the person is in trouble for lying to the police and carrying a conceal weapon. Here intended and probable use as a dangerous weapon is clear. Even if you say that you just made it as art, I would still watch someone who had something that looks like this especially if it's looks sturdy.
84947748.jpg
 

CB Jones

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I'll see if I can ask a lawyer my way. When I read the definition it didn't read that way to me, because anything could be classified as a weapon regardless of declared intent.

Good luck with that then.
 
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Christopher Adamchek

Christopher Adamchek

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That is kind of standard for every system, crossing continents and cultures. Everyone that has a weapon system has a subset that includes what happens when you are within the range and into short-range and how to use it with grappling and win to go to hand

True
That is kind of standard for every system, crossing continents and cultures. Everyone that has a weapon system has a subset that includes what happens when you are within the range and into short-range and how to use it with grappling and win to go to hand technique.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

True, unfortunately ive seen a decent few modern dojos that don't utilize and teach such things.
 

drop bear

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Also realize that different jurisdictions could be stricter with their interpretation of the law.

For example, the law in my state:

Illegal carrying of weapons is:

(1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person;


Some jurisdictions can be stricter in their interpretation of this than others.

Yeah the old put a ball in with that baseball bat in the car.
 

JowGaWolf

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And I'm not saying you can't carry Baoding Balls concealed.....but just be careful about claiming you carry them for the purpose of Self Defense.
I understand what you about taking care. People carry a lot of things for self-defense, some things are strickly for self-defense and others are pretty much "the next best thing" if even that. Breaking a skull with a Baoding or a stone Massage ball would be really difficult. You can probably break some facial bone with it but the skull is really hard. And I'm not sure if I could "wind up my throw" with enough force to actually crack someone's skull. I would be happy with them ducking because that delays the attack. and will most likely give them a big blind spot i could take advantage of as they turn their head or cover their head to avoid being hit in the head.

As a kid my friends and I used to throw stuff at each other so the natural response is to cover the head when you think someone is throwing something at it. Unless you can throw a rock unexpectedly then it's really difficult to land a hit on the head. You can tag the body all day long and be a champ but it's really easy to take cover from the small stuff.

Here's a video of a man with rock (I guess it still qualifies a rock at that size) vs a guy with a knife. There's a couple of things happening here, That I'll leave room for comments

I thought it was an excellent throw, It wouldn't have been the throw I would have made but to throw a rock that size with that type of accuracy is impressive. If someone is coming at you with a rock then that's what you want. It didn't kill him but it would have stopped the attack. The only legal problem is that the guy wasn't attacking at that point.
Not sure if the guy in the shirt was stabbed.

The biggest risk to throwing a rock is that if you miss then you have just pissed off the attacker even more, You no longer have an object to keep that person at bay. Hitting the body will hurt but it definitely won't stop an attacker. If the attacker has a knife then it's "the next best thing"


notice in this video the thrown rock did nothing and that's the risk. cracking skulls and K.O ing so someone with a rock is easier said than done. In other words, if that's what you think is going to happen then you are using the wrong tool.
 

JowGaWolf

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If you were stopped and frisked and the officer asks you what the Baoding Balls were for and you reply for self defense
Thanks for looking out. you are are right about that.

Already been there when I was in my 20's. Traveling through the airport after 9/11. I emptied my pockets and I had the massage ball there. They asked me what was it. I told them the truth.

1. It's a cats eye massage ball used to manage stress and anxiety. It's just like the stress balls that you squeeze but it's suppose to be healthier because it's natural and the minerals that's in your hand is good for the health of the hand and body. "word for word" Honest truth. both in the event that happened and my response.

2. The agent gave me the ball back and I got on the plane. Landed in Australia and no one asked about it. Landed in the U.S. on the return trip and no one asked about it.

It wasn't on the list of things I couldn't have, it wasn't and still isn't illegal so I just told the truth. No one was attacked with a massage ball. To help me deal with anxiety and stress was a legit as when I fly for long periods of times, the descent makes it feel like blood vessels are bursting in my brain (causing sharp pains and worry). To this day I still worry about it. Recently went on a plane flight to Detroit and forgot that I have this problem, until I was on the plane. I didn't have my stress ball so I tore pieces of a napkin and prayed that my head wouldn't hurt upon decent.

From a legal point of view, if I'm asked by law enforcement what is something then I tell them the truth. It's a massage ball. Because that's what it is. you can look it up on line and you'll see healing stones, and healing crystals. With the law, you have to answer the question and not answer beyond that.

1. What is it? Massage ball
2. What do you use if for? Manage stress and anxiety. blah blah blah
3. Why don't you use one of those rubber ones you can squeeze? You can squeeze this, it just won't collapse. it lasts longer and it's healthier, because you don't get the toxins that you would get from dyes and synthetic materials. In addition the firmness allows you work out tight muscles that are tense which you can't do with a rubber squeeze toy.

All of this is true so there's no lie to keep up with. There can be more than one truth to why you have something or what you use things for. Pick the truth that keeps you out of trouble. Don't play the police officer for a fool because they will pick that up. That uneasiness that some people get when talking to police officers. (I had a few friends and family members who were police officers, security guards, etc). Being in a police officer gave them the advantage of knowing when someone was uncomfortable talking to them and that usually occurred when someone was lying.

Personally, my unit and I wouldn't have a problem with them unless we had reason to believe you were looking for trouble.....but you never know when you are going to come across that agency that interprets that law much stricter.
Most people wouldn't be bothered by it it. It's not a first weapon of choice for anyone. I'm sure as hell not going to attack someone who has a gun with it lol. It's not really dangerous until it's put into something like a sock. I would be more worried about that than someone throwing it at me.

having it in a sock or some kind of sleeve that can be spun around basically turn it into this thing but on a shorter rope.
cr102.jpg

 

lklawson

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having it in a sock or some kind of sleeve that can be spun around basically turn it into this thing but on a shorter rope.
cr102.jpg

In the US it is called a "slungshot" and it is illegal in more states than not to carry, sometimes to even own, particularly blue states.
 

JowGaWolf

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In the US it is called a "slungshot" and it is illegal in more states than not to carry, sometimes to even own, particularly blue states.
Thanks. I learned something new today.

Then I went to enjoy this. Good thing it didn't hit his spine.
 

lklawson

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Thanks. I learned something new today.

Then I went to enjoy this. Good thing it didn't hit his spine.
The Slungshot was a common weapon in the 19th and early 20th Century. Probably the most famous reference is through Abraham Lincoln who, while still a lawyer, defended a family friend accused of murdering someone with a slungshot.

Today, when the term specifically appears in law, it is often mistaken for a misspelling of "sling shot," the rubber-band strung, y shaped propeller of pellets. Truthfully, the item was spelled many different ways, historically, using spaces, hyphens, and even with an "i" instead of a "u." Thus the old documents (newspapers, court records, etc.) must be read for context.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Bill Mattocks

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An 80 years old man walks on the street with 2 Baoding balls in his hand. A 20 years old robber tries to grab the watch from the old man. The old man throws his Baoding ball and cracks the young man's skull.

In the court, the old man says, "This young guy tries to take my watch. My Baoding ball came out of my hand and hit on his head. His death was 100% accident.

The nice thing about the Baoding ball are:

- It's legal to carry.
- There will be no prove that you have intention to use it to hurt anybody.
Stop giving legal advice if you are not an attorney. FYI, you are incorrect.
 

Bill Mattocks

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I think people really get stuck on the intent to use as a weapon too much. If I have not attacked you or threaten to attack you you with the baoding ball then there is no way or reason I would be in court for baoding balls or massage balls.

If I have threaten to hit you, or attack you with baoding balls then it becomes a legal matter that I need to be concerned with. For example, I have already made it clear that I sometimes carry stone massage balls for the purpose of a weapon. No police or law enforcement in the U.S. is going to arrest me for it. There's not law in the U.S. against it.

Baoding balls and stone massage balls are not classified as weapons which is why you can walk in schools, churches, and government buildings with them. There is no law against it. Pardon my the pun but I could play with those things right in plain site of a police officer and nothing will happen. Not one court date.

However, the moment I use one as a weapon is the exact moment I better have valid reason for using one as a weapon. Just because I have a pair of Baoding balls with me that day, doesn't mean that my reason for them carrying them that day was to use it as a weapon. Now if I leave a trail of bodies on the ground with skulls cracked by a baoding ball then yes, now you put me under the jail and take my statement that I carry them as weapon as something to arrest me by.

Other than that what you are looking at is
1. The probability that I'm attacked on a day I have my baoding ball
2. The probability that I was able to get a clean shot where I could throw it hard enough to crack someone's skull and then have them die.
3. The reality in which I would throw a rock at someone. What was the situation. Did my attacker have a knife? What my attacker significantly larger and stronger than me.
4. What was the likely hood of me being able to defend myself considering my fitness and age.
5. Did I attack the person or did the person attack me?
6. Did I throw the baoding ball with the intent to kill? or was I just defending myself?
7. What happened after I threw the baoding ball. Did the attacker continue to attack?

There is just so many things that unless you are a criminal ninja who has perfected the art of killing others with a baoding ball who attacked someone out of the blue. The fact that a massage ball or baoding ball was in my possession and my intent for having it is just totally irrelevant.

If I threw it at my attacker then by nature of use, my intent was to use it as a weapon regardless or why I originally had it. Which is why I wouldn't use the "Oh it slipped out of my pants pocket and broke my attacker's skull bad enough to where he died." defense.

Had I not been attacked and in fear for my well being then I would have never used it as a weapon. But since I was attacked "It was the next best thing" to aid me in my self preservation. Especially if my attacker has a knife.

Your statements about what is and is not a weapon are incorrect.
 

Bill Mattocks

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You just seem to be saying the same thing over and over, Bill. You say it's different, but haven't said how you see that difference.

If you can't see the difference, I am not sure how I can make it clear without repeating myself as you said, so I'll just say yeah fine whatever man.
 

Finlay

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Weapon law change radically from country to country.

In the Uk I believe you have to prove that you have reason to carry anything that could be used as a weapon.

For example, if I am found carrying a hammer while walking down the street, I have to prove I had reason to be carrying the hammer.

As a person who has lived in a number of dofferent countries, som with very questionable law enforcement. I usually find it easier not to carry or use weapons of oppurtunity. Which could be anything from a brick to dog poop. :)
 
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