Close Quarter Knife Throws

JowGaWolf

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Thats three, but all reasonable.
Yeah long work week. I can't count. That's my 4th week.. Your honor I only hit him twice I don't remember hitting him 10 times lol.

And the third one can happen fairly often regardless of skill, and reasons why warrior would have secondary weapons such a knives, or grappling skills - in the instance of sword fighting for example that gets too tangled as close range.
I used to think the same thing about long weapons, but a few years ago I learned that the staff has short range striking techniques. Someone who knows how to use a staff would be able to beat you close range just as easily.

Staff has short range and grappling techniques which are deployed when the person is too close for the long strikes. I tried to train those techniques at school and what I discovered was that we had to go really slow because the staff was hitting us within milliseconds. The harder the struggle the more power will be added into the strike. The close quarter staff strikes are much quicker.

Depending on the sword, the sword will also have close range fighting techniques as well. The cutting edge of a combat sword is long, it's not just at the tip. You also have the hilt.

Here you can see jow ga double sword and you can tell when strikes are close range and when they are long range.

this is sigle broad sword. If you get hit with this close range then you'll be ok, right up until the point where the user pulls the sword across your body. Here the cuts are similar to how paper cuts work. It's not the initial impact that cuts you, It's the pulling of the edge across the surface of the body.

Usually the curved blades will mess you up even at close range.


Also my weapon hindrance and voluntary disarmment was separate from the technique in this video (as i stated with "in other regards")
Sorry didn't see that part


Had I not been attacked and in fear for my well being then I would have never used it as a weapon. But since I was attacked "It was the next best thing" to aid me in my self preservation. Especially if my attacker has a knife.
I'll go back and read your additional comments.
 
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Christopher Adamchek

Christopher Adamchek

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Staff has short range and grappling techniques which are deployed when the person is too close for the long strikes

I agree and practice and teach that as well. But i can also be advantageous to transition to empty hand strikes or grappling, go for thier primary weapon, go for yours or thier secondary weapon. Or some combination of these.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I think people really get stuck on the intent to use as a weapon too much.
This is why the self-defense people don't want to talk about "weapon training". Even if you may say that you train how to use a weapon for self-defense, people won't believe you.

If you train

- Guan Dao, you intend to cut your enemy's head off.
- Spear, you intend to drill a hole through your enemy's chest.

You have the ability to do something, it doesn't mean that you will do it, or you have to do it. There is nothing wrong to be honest to yourself.


 
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CB Jones

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I think people really get stuck on the intent to use as a weapon too much. If I have not attacked you or threaten to attack you you with the baoding ball then there is no way or reason I would be in court for baoding balls or massage balls.

If I have threaten to hit you, or attack you with baoding balls then it becomes a legal matter that I need to be concerned with. For example, I have already made it clear that I sometimes carry stone massage balls for the purpose of a weapon. No police or law enforcement in the U.S. is going to arrest me for it. There's not law in the U.S. against it.

Incorrect.

Intent is an important part of the law.. If you are carrying an object you intend to use as a weapon then it meets the definition of a weapon and as such is governed by laws regulating the carrying of those weapons. So it is important to know your local and state laws on the carrying of weapons.
 

JowGaWolf

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Incorrect.

Intent is an important part of the law.. If you are carrying an object you intend to use as a weapon then it meets the definition of a weapon and as such is governed by laws regulating the carrying of those weapons. So it is important to know your local and state laws on the carrying of weapons.
If I hit you in the head with a rock, then the intent is clear that my intent is to use it as a weapon.

If I carry a massage ball in my pocket and hit no one, then how do you prove my intent? How am I in legal jeopardy for having in rock that is also used for massage in my pocket that I do not use? How do I get arrested for that? You couldn't even prove that I wanted to attack someone with it unless I state or post that I'm going to go bash some people in the head with a baoding ball. If you state that you can use it as a weapon then guess what? You can use a neck tie as a weapon and you can wear a neck tie for the purpose of using it as a weapon. But guess what. a police officer would be hard press to come to my job and arrest me for wearing a necktie just because I say I wear it because I can use it as weapon.

I could be in an argument and not use the baoding ball. So where is the intent to use it as weapon if I don't use it in an heated argument? I can even choose not to use it if the person punches at me. Where is my intent to use it as a weapon even if a person punches at me but I don't use it?


If I fear for my life, then yes I'm going to use it. If someone has a knife then yes, I'm going to use it. So while intent is important in law, it only comes into play when it's used.
I cannot get arrested for a baoding ball as a weapon if I punch and kick the attacker unconscious. You couldn't even arrest me for attacking someone with it if I don't use it in a fist fight. It wouldn't even come into legal play, there wouldn't even be a legal question about it because it wasn't used. I may be in trouble for punching and kicking a guy but I won't be in trouble for my intent of carrying a baoding ball as a weapon. On what legal grounds would I be charged for that as it's not a weapon.

There is a big different between something that is classified as a weapon and something that could be used as a weapon. I cold easily pick up dirt and throw into an attackers eyes. Was it my intent to use the dirt as a weapon, Hell yeah. that's why threw the dirt, for self-defense. Is dirt classified as a weapon? No.

The legal definition of intent is not so broad that it takes things out of context and consideration of use.

When it comes to classified weapons then it becomes a little more difficult to say "I didn't intend to" which is where a lot of this intent stuff comes into play where someone didn't intend for the death of another to happen vs the intent to use something as a weapon.
 

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how do you prove my intent?

By your own admission....

If you say I'm am carrying this object to use as a weapon...then your intent for that object is for it to be a weapon and it is classified as such.

If the object is something that is reasonably used as a weapon and it is probable that the intent of you carrying it as a weapon then it can also be classified as a weapon.
 

JowGaWolf

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Incorrect.

Intent is an important part of the law.. If you are carrying an object you intend to use as a weapon then it meets the definition of a weapon and as such is governed by laws regulating the carrying of those weapons. So it is important to know your local and state laws on the carrying of weapons.
By the way I definitely agree with the know your local state laws on the carrying of weapons
 

CB Jones

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By the way I definitely agree with the know your local state laws on the carrying of weapons


Also realize that different jurisdictions could be stricter with their interpretation of the law.

For example, the law in my state:

Illegal carrying of weapons is:

(1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person;


Some jurisdictions can be stricter in their interpretation of this than others.
 

JowGaWolf

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By your own admission....
By my own admission I also use the same object for managing stress and anxiety. So by my own admission it's not a weapon, which brings us back to the question. I've used the massage ball on more than 100 occasions for managing stress and anxiety. I've used it zero times as a weapon. Zero times for attacking someone. So regardless of what I stated it's clear that I'm not running around nailing people in the face or head with it.

Just because I have it doesn't mean that my primary reason for carrying it that day is to use it as a weapon. So once again. How do you know when I'm carrying it for Primary use as a weapon or Primary use for managing stress and anxiety? How would you prove that in a court of law? And if I not attacking anyone with it, then how are you going to get me in the court of law on the possibility that the massage ball that I have is a weapon? It's not a illegal to carry them, so on what grounds am I being arrested for? On what grounds would I be in legal jeopardy?

If I do use it as a weapon then I'm not going to try to hide that I used it as weapon, simply for the fact that would be very clear that it was use as a weapon.

If you say I'm am carrying this object to use as a weapon...then your intent for that object is for it to be a weapon and it is classified as such.
Even if I don't say I'm carrying it for a use of a weapon and I use it for a weapon, the intent would still be clear. I used it for a weapon regardless of why I was carrying it around.

You could be in the same room with an aggressive person who starts to get violent and threatens to attack you. You pick up a near by lamp post to defend yourself. You hit the attacker with the lamp and cracks his skull. Did you carry the lamp post around as weapon? No Did you tell someone you would use a lamp post as a weapon if you had to? No. Did intend to use the lamp post as a weapon when you cracked the skull of your attacker? OF COURSE YOU DID. That's why you picked it up and not the chair because you believed that the lamp would be a better weapon to defend yourself than the chair. If that lamp stays where it is during the fight, then how are they going to say that your intent was to use the lamp to strike person.

Now in terms of intent. If you hit your attacker with the lamp it cracks his skull and then he dies, Then the question becomes did you intent to kill the person that was attacking you? Did you know that the lamp would kill the person as you were defending yourself. Did you hit the person with the lamp and then repeated struck the person while he was unconscious.. At this point intent is going to be a big focus.
shopping


If I have been convicted of a federal crime and served my time in prison and upon release, does that mean that I can't wear shoes if I say that I wear them as a weapon? Does it mean that I can't wear a tie? Does it mean that I can't carry pencils or pens? Or carry a rock, keys, or walk with a waking stick? Does it mean that I can't have this floor lamp in my house because I said I would use it as as a weapon? Does it mean I can't carry a heavy flashlight? Does it mean that I can't walk around with plastic shin guards? Because now that I've said I wear shin guards to be used as weapons that the shin guards are now a weapon. Does that apply if I tell someone that wear loose shirts so I can take them off and choke someone. So I get in legal trouble for that?
 

CB Jones

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By my own admission I also use the same object for managing stress and anxiety

Again...if you say.....I carry this for self defense......then that implies that your intent is to use it as a weapon and it can be classified as a weapon.

If you say I carry these for stress or hand strengthening that does not imply intent to use as a weapon and technically it is not a weapon until your intent changes.

If it is reasonable that you have an object that could be used as a weapon for a reasonable purpose then there is no problem....if you have an object that you state its purpose is as a weapon.....then it is classified as a weapon.

A Hammer is a legal tool. It is reasonable for a carpenter to have a hammer concealed in a pouch while working. It is not reasonable for the same carpenter to have the hammer concealed in his jacket at a bar after hours. That tool is now considered to be intended as a weapon.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Again...if you say.....I carry this for self defense......then that implies that your intent is to use it as a weapon and it can be classified as a weapon.
In a street fight, you hurt your opponent. The judge asks you:

A: Why do you train MA?
B: I train MA for SD (you are a bad guy).
C: I train MA for health (you are an average guy).
D: I train MA for self-cultivation and inner peace (you are a good guy),

Do you think judge will treat you any difference if your answer is B, C, or D?
 

CB Jones

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In a street fight, you hurt your opponent. The judge asks you:

A: Why do you train MA?
B: I train MA for SD (you are a bad guy).
C: I train MA for health (you are an average guy).
D: I train MA for self-cultivation and inner peace (you are a good guy),

Do you think judge will treat you any difference if your answer is B, C, or D?

No there is no law against knowing how to defend yourself....but your defense has to be reasonable and you must stop once the threat is no longer there.
 

JowGaWolf

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(1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person;
1. Baoding balls are not a firearm so we can count that out.
2. Baoding balls are not instrumentality customarily used as a dangerous weapon nor are they designed or made for intended use of a probable use as a dangerous weapon.

This is why you don't get put in jail for having Baoding balls in your pocket.. Because under law it's not a weapon. I can go to any police station have in my pocket take it out of my pocket play with them and I won't be arrested. However, the same can not be said with concealed knives, guns, hatchets, blades, with the exception in some states for pocket knives. Zip guns, concealed swords, bowie knives. Those would be considered an illegal weapon if they are concealed regardless of your intent. Even if you are just transferring them to someone elses house, you will be breaking the law for having it concealed in your pocket.

The same is not true for Baoding balls in your pocket. I can't be pulled over, searched and then arrested for having Baoding Balls in my pocket. You would more likely be in trouble for walking around with this thing than you would a baoding ball.

This is clearly intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon.

images






This however is not as clear cut
upload_2019-2-23_20-11-9.jpeg


Nor is these. which do not fit as an instrument that is customarily used as a dangerous weapon. It also does not fit the definition of other instrument that is customarily intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon. other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person
upload_2019-2-23_20-14-46.jpeg



In terms of probable use as a weapon. That would be everything from sewing needles, to iron nails, to having a fist in your pocket or having a toy spinner. But having these things in your pocket are not considered illegal weapons nor are they considered concealed weapons. The ring however would match the definition easily. On only has to look at it to determine that it was created and intended for probable use as a weapon.

This is why I say the intent doesn't matter for hitting someone with a baoding ball because once you use it to cause injury to another then the intent is clear that you wanted to use it as a weapon. I can't do the same with a knife. I can't just walk around with a knive in my pocket and say that I wasn't intending to use it as a weapon. I could get in trouble regardless of intent for having a knife in my pocket. In georgia pocket knives are legal until the blade reaches a certain length.

Typically stuff like this
images


but not stuff like this. Even if the blade is well within the length for a pocket knife. The design tells a different story which would probably get a person in hot water. After a certain length the knife has to be worn in plain sight. For example, I can walk down the street with a bowie knife on my possession and not be in trouble, but as soon as it slips under some clothing, then I'll be in big trouble. if I wanted to put this knife in my pocket then I would need to get a concealed weapons permit. Baoding balls do not require such a permit.

images
 

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This however is not as clear cut
upload_2019-2-23_20-11-9-jpeg.22109

Maybe not clear cut but when you say I carry these for self defense it allows for them to possible be classified as such.

It also does not fit the definition of other instrument that is customarily intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon. other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person

You are reading that wrong.

It means other instrumentality:
a) customarily used
or
b) intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon

you added the customarily incorrectly to the 2nd part.

Knives have exceptions written into the law that allows them to be carried....as long as they fit within the parameters of the law they are covered by the exceptions.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The reason it's called Baoding ball because it is famous in Baoding, China. The ball has a small ball inside. It's like a bell that can make noise. This ball is used to put inside of a square bag along with other filling material. When you throw the square bag to your opponent, the ball will make noise to inform your opponent that a square bag is thrown toward him (for safety reason).

 

JowGaWolf

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In a street fight, you hurt your opponent. The judge asks you:

A: Why do you train MA?
B: I train MA for SD (you are a bad guy).
C: I train MA for health (you are an average guy).
D: I train MA for self-cultivation and inner peace (you are a good guy),

Do you think judge will treat you any difference if your answer is B, C, or D?
Depends on how it turns out.

For B. it's very possible that the judge will say. "I guess that self-defense training paid off, or that martial arts training pays off" If you do it the right way then you won't be on trial. You'll be the one talking to the police and pressing charges.

For C. You'll probably just get your butt kicked unless you know some other fighting system or if you are just a natural fighter. If all you do is train for health then you'll may make it to court or you may be dead or in the hospital. However if you were the one who started the fight, you would still go to jail when the other person presses charges.

For D. He'll probably say, I guess you suck at inner peace because you got into a fight.

In court cases the cleaner your legal record the better it will be for you when self-defense is used, especially if your attacker as a criminal record for attacking others. For me personally, I would pick B. I train MA for SD and I would also use my past post to highlight that most of my effort was to be a good representative of Jow Ga Kung Fu, not to be in street fights. At least for me, the truth would be the better way to go. I could also claim, B,C, D. as well because I get that as a benefit as well. It's like if you can do an exercise where you get one benefit or do one where you can get multiple benefits, which one would you choose?

Besides it's already proven that Kung Fu practioners can't fight and that it doesn't work, that's why you don't see it in MMA.
 

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I think people really get stuck on the intent to use as a weapon too much. If I have not attacked you or threaten to attack you you with the baoding ball then there is no way or reason I would be in court for baoding balls or massage balls.

If I have threaten to hit you, or attack you with baoding balls then it becomes a legal matter that I need to be concerned with. For example, I have already made it clear that I sometimes carry stone massage balls for the purpose of a weapon. No police or law enforcement in the U.S. is going to arrest me for it. There's not law in the U.S. against it.

Baoding balls and stone massage balls are not classified as weapons which is why you can walk in schools, churches, and government buildings with them. There is no law against it. Pardon my the pun but I could play with those things right in plain site of a police officer and nothing will happen. Not one court date.

However, the moment I use one as a weapon is the exact moment I better have valid reason for using one as a weapon. Just because I have a pair of Baoding balls with me that day, doesn't mean that my reason for them carrying them that day was to use it as a weapon. Now if I leave a trail of bodies on the ground with skulls cracked by a baoding ball then yes, now you put me under the jail and take my statement that I carry them as weapon as something to arrest me by.

Other than that what you are looking at is
1. The probability that I'm attacked on a day I have my baoding ball
2. The probability that I was able to get a clean shot where I could throw it hard enough to crack someone's skull and then have them die.
3. The reality in which I would throw a rock at someone. What was the situation. Did my attacker have a knife? What my attacker significantly larger and stronger than me.
4. What was the likely hood of me being able to defend myself considering my fitness and age.
5. Did I attack the person or did the person attack me?
6. Did I throw the baoding ball with the intent to kill? or was I just defending myself?
7. What happened after I threw the baoding ball. Did the attacker continue to attack?

There is just so many things that unless you are a criminal ninja who has perfected the art of killing others with a baoding ball who attacked someone out of the blue. The fact that a massage ball or baoding ball was in my possession and my intent for having it is just totally irrelevant.

If I threw it at my attacker then by nature of use, my intent was to use it as a weapon regardless or why I originally had it. Which is why I wouldn't use the "Oh it slipped out of my pants pocket and broke my attacker's skull bad enough to where he died." defense.

Had I not been attacked and in fear for my well being then I would have never used it as a weapon. But since I was attacked "It was the next best thing" to aid me in my self preservation. Especially if my attacker has a knife.
You are still missing the fact that in many locations they have specific laws against "going forth with the intent to be armed," regardless of whether or not it was designed specifically as a weapon.
 

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My background: I have 20 years in law enforcement of which 14 of those are in investigations. I also work a week long street crime operation in which one of the things we target is the illegal carrying of weapons. Due to that we go over this specifically with our legal department, the District Attorney, and a Retired Appellate Judge who now teaches legal updates for LEO.

Any object can be defined as a weapon if there is proof that they are carrying it for the intended purpose of using it as a weapon or it is probable that it is intended as a weapon.

Again you don't have to have a permit to carry a hammer, but if you are carrying it concealed in a setting that it is probable that it is intended as a weapon....then it can be classified as a weapon.



Carry what you want but be careful what you advise people is legal to carry because you are getting into a very gray area of the law.
 

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I agree and practice and teach that as well. But i can also be advantageous to transition to empty hand strikes or grappling, go for thier primary weapon, go for yours or thier secondary weapon. Or some combination of these.
That is kind of standard for every system, crossing continents and cultures. Everyone that has a weapon system has a subset that includes what happens when you are within the range and into short-range and how to use it with grappling and win to go to hand technique.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)
 

CB Jones

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@JowGaWolf

And I'm not saying you can't carry Baoding Balls concealed.....but just be careful about claiming you carry them for the purpose of Self Defense.

Instead you carry them for Stress Management and hand strengthening but you recognize that they could be used for self defense if you were endanger.


Example:

If you were stopped and frisked and the officer asks you what the Baoding Balls were for and you reply for self defense....you open the door for an illegal carry charge due to the admission to your intent for them.

But if you say...for stress relief then you are probably ok.


Personally, my unit and I wouldn't have a problem with them unless we had reason to believe you were looking for trouble.....but you never know when you are going to come across that agency that interprets that law much stricter.
 
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