Classic TKD forms

IcemanSK

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I recently got a book called "Tae Kwon Do Classic Forms" by Ted Hillson. The book shows 21 of the "early" TKD hyungs. He specifies that they are early Chung Do Kwan forms, but I'm sure other Kwan used some as well.

They are (in the order in this book)
Kuk Mu 1
Kuk Mu 2
Pyong An 1
Kuk Mu 3
Pyong An 2
Pyong An 3
Ch'ien 1
Pyong An 4
Kuk Mu 5
Chul Gi 1
Pal Sek
Ship Soo
Chul Gi 2
Yun Bee
Ja On
Chinto
Chul Gi 3
Kang Sang Koon Dae
Kang Sang Koon Sho

The drawings (not photos) of the moves are good, yet they lack the "pop" (if you will) of video or even photos.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these forms? I know the Pyong An forms are popular for TSD folks. Pal Sek (Bassai Dae) & Yun Bee are a part of my training. I enjoy them because they are unique & challenging. There seems to be a depth to them that are lacking in some other forms. IMO.

What are your experiences with any of these? I'd love to know your thoughts on them.
 

cdunn

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... The only one of these forms that is not immediately recognizable as a traditional TSD or shotokan form is Ch'ien.

Other than that, I have personal experience with everything on that list through Bassai Dai, and have seen everything but Ch'ien and KSK So at the dojang. I'm actually very fond of Chul Gi / Naihanchi 1, because of it's directness.
 

DMcHenry

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I perform those forms, did them in both TKD & TSD as well as ShotoKan except for the Kuk Mu forms. In TSD we use slightly different names for many of the yudanja hyungs.

One of my students did all those, as he's former CDK TKD.
 

dancingalone

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Bassai is a nice kata. When I was younger, I used to perform it quickly for maximum snap and crowd-pleasing effect. Then one of my sempai explained I actually would be hitting harder if I slowed down my limbs and moved instead from my center. He was right.

Bassai is usually a brown belt level/shodan pattern in most karate schools. You can really tell with this kata if a student has mastered his basics from learning the Pinan series well or not as is the case. You can't hide your lack of coordination and it's very evident if you can create whipping force or not.
 

clfsean

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Back in the day at my original TKD school...

White... Basics 1/2/3 (taikiyoku)
Yellow... Pyong an 1
Green... Pyong an 2 & 3
Red... Pyong an 4 & 5
Black... Bassai Dai, Kanku Dai, Jitte, Empi, Tensho

We weren't far removed from Japan/Okinawa at that point... except better kicking...
 

boobishi

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Kuk Mu Chodan


Kuk Mu Edan


Chulgi Edan / Naihanchi Nidan


I wish I had the other Kuk Mu forms to show you. They are the foros that begin to show a seperation from Japanes origins. In many ways Kuk Mu Ohdan is considered the flaghip of the series. You can see a synthesis of Japanese upper body technique and more a "Korean" mindset in kicking. Maybe it's time to shoot some video. I believe the forms were designed J.B. Chung.
 
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Miles

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I always thought the Kuk Mu forms were indigenous to the Kuk Mu Kwan which was a sub-Kwan of the Chung Do Kwan founded by Suh Kang. I don't think the Chung Do Kwan ever trained in those forms.
 

exile

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Back in the day at my original TKD school...

White... Basics 1/2/3 (taikiyoku)
Yellow... Pyong an 1
Green... Pyong an 2 & 3
Red... Pyong an 4 & 5
Black... Bassai Dai, Kanku Dai, Jitte, Empi, Tensho

We weren't far removed from Japan/Okinawa at that point... except better kicking...

Wow, you trained in a Kwan era school, clf! That could be a perfectly respectable straight Shotokan syllabus.

I do Eunbi/Yun Bi, which is just Empi with the the crucial knee strikes reinterpreted as mid/high kicks, something which in the context of the before and after movements makes little or no sense so far as practical applications are concerned. I'm thinking of switching to straight Empi instead of continuing to do the Eunbi version of that kata.
 

boobishi

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I always thought the Kuk Mu forms were indigenous to the Kuk Mu Kwan which was a sub-Kwan of the Chung Do Kwan founded by Suh Kang. I don't think the Chung Do Kwan ever trained in those forms.

You are correct. The Ku Mu or Kuk Mu forms did not have their origin in the Chung do kwan.
 

clfsean

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Wow, you trained in a Kwan era school, clf! That could be a perfectly respectable straight Shotokan syllabus.

Yeah man... I started a while back...

I do Eunbi/Yun Bi, which is just Empi with the the crucial knee strikes reinterpreted as mid/high kicks, something which in the context of the before and after movements makes little or no sense so far as practical applications are concerned. I'm thinking of switching to straight Empi instead of continuing to do the Eunbi version of that kata.

My Empi wasn't that much different (that I remember) than what I've seen on Youtube for JMA versions it. Except we weren't quite as "tense & pronounced" on things as they seem to be. Otherwise, low kicks all the way... more front than sides.

Come drill time... kicks galore!!!! At times if you'd watched us, you would've thought there were two different but similar schools of MA there...
 

boobishi

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You are correct. The Ku Mu or Kuk Mu forms did not have their origin in the Chung do kwan.

Iwent looking for some Ku Mu research earlier. If they did originate in the Kuk mu Kwan (which makes sense) they seemed to be abandoned by Kang at some point. It appears they do ITF forms. I also found some other forms referred to as Ku mu 1-6 which bore no resemblance to the KuK Mu we practice. Very interesting. Kang and our teacher Yong taek Chung certainly would have known each other are listed as the 7th and 8th students to get black belts from Lee. Chung was in japan until 1974 before coming to the U.S.

Duk Sung Son the second CDK Kwanjandnim published Kuk Mu 1 and 2 in "Korean Karate" in 1968. They may not have there origin in CDK but by the time CDK came to the U.S. at least one CDK practioner was doing them.
Like I said very interesting. Let me know if you guys have any other info.
 
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