Chi - Ki - Qi?

Samuraifan

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I have come across Chi - Ki - Qi a lot in my reading but I don't quite understand it. I have tried searching for information on the internet but I can't seem to find a good source of information. So, I have come here. Can someone give me a idea of what Chi - Ki - Qi is?

I also have heard that qigong breathing excerices help strenghthen Chi - Ki - Qi but also I can't seem to find any resources on the internet, Can someone point me in the right direction or give me some qigong breathing excercises that I can practice at home?

Thanks in advance.
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
To answer such a question I must first a ask a question. How open are you to outside religous theories? My response to this thread will be based off your answer.
 

JadecloudAlchemist

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
1,877
Reaction score
82
Location
Miami,Florida
I have come across Chi - Ki - Qi a lot in my reading but I don't quite understand it. I have tried searching for information on the internet but I can't seem to find a good source of information. So, I have come here. Can someone give me a idea of what Chi - Ki - Qi is?
First the Character for Qi can mean different things.
Second there are different types of Qi. Third Ki and Chi in Japanese mean 2 different things one means blood and one means well Qi. In Japanese language though to be fair Chi in Japanese also depends on the kanji.
The correct question is what is Ren Qi? Ren Qi is human qi or human energy/bio energy as opposed to Tian Qi meaning heaven Qi.

also have heard that qigong breathing excerices help strenghthen Chi - Ki - Qi but also I can't seem to find any resources on the internet, Can someone point me in the right direction or give me some qigong breathing excercises that I can practice at home?
Qigong means time and practice of studying energies. Qigong strenghtens and balances and changes the different types of energy depending on which type you are talking about.
Qi and breath are related since the Lungs Govern it. That is a very short informative and defination of Qigong.
 
OP
Samuraifan

Samuraifan

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
Melbourne, Australia
To answer such a question I must first a ask a question. How open are you to outside religous theories? My response to this thread will be based off your answer.

As I have been growing up I have not really been introduced to religion, as a result I am not really a religious person. However, lately I have had an urge to go to church and learn. All the same, I have always believed there is some kind of higher power. Also if it helps with devising your answer, I believe in concept of karma.


Thankyou
JadecloudAlchemist for you informative reply
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
Good. Staunchly religious individuals would not like an expansion on what Jade Cloud stated. I'll reply tomorrow, after I've gotten a chance to gather up my thoughts.
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
732
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
I am not sure one can get the proper education in CHI development over the internet. One can however find thoughts on what it is as well as arguments aginst its exsistance.
I look forward to hearing soem more answeres
If you do a search I am sure you will find some discussions that have been done befor in this forum
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
Chi (Chinese, and this from Daoism) comes from the Eternal Tao (similar idea to God, but NOT the same as). Chi is a source of energy and power, and comes in differnit forms. The stuff you are born with is called prenateal Chi, when it is used up you die. But, it is supplimented by Nourishing Chi, which comes from food, water/liquid, air, and so on. Chi is cancled out many kinds of negitives that many people do to themselves. No exercise, smoking, alcohol, excesses, so on. Thats the metaphysical, very breifly.

Here's the physical. Chi is a form of energy that travels with your blood or nerves, it is infact one of two things. ATP which is carried in blood and is the major source of energy, and comes from food. The other is Bioelectrecity. When two nerve endings in the brain get close enough, they fire off an electric pulse. Get enough of these in one place, and you have a thought. Get more, and the electricity goes down the nerves and into muscle. The muscle contracts (muscles contract when an electric charge is passed through them), and you have movement.
Chi exercise is also easily explained. there are three major version. Chi Breathing (which I have limited knowledge and understanding of), Chi Gong, and meditation. I will not cover Chi breathing, since I have no real understading of how it works.
Chi Gong is one of two version. The first is still movements. Really, any position could be used. By holding that position, you force more nerve endings to 'open up'. What this means is, you have many nerve endings which could be used to perform a movement, but only a small number are used. By holding a position for long periods of time additional force (and thus electricity) is required. More nerves are recruited, and slowly the nerves 'open up', which allow you to (eventually) generate more force then usual. This is similar in idea to weight training. Chi Gong in movement runs on similar concepts.
Meditation works on similar principles as Chi Gong. The differnce is that Chi Gong works by opening up additional nerve endings to perfrom with more power. Meditation uses a similar idea to build up the strength of the nerves in the brain. The nerves get stronger, and the mind develops.

Intrestingly, by doing Chi Gong, you also strengthen the mind, and by doing meditation, you develop your body. Theorictly, atleast (both develop nerves, which are used in both)
 
OP
Samuraifan

Samuraifan

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I appreciate the time you spent to reply to my post. I have learnt a few things from your post. You fed my curiosity about Chi and gave me the desire to learn much more. At the moment I am findining more sources of information to follow-up on ^^. Once again, thanks!
 

Steel Tiger

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
2,412
Reaction score
77
Location
Canberra, Australia
Qi is a very interesting subject isn't it? I think between them JadeCloud and CuongNhuka have described the traditional and scientific views of Qi.

There is a lot of talk about gathering and cultivating Qi and this can be done with qigong. There is moving and still qigong and I think that one should practice both to gain balanced benefit.

I practice a number of qigong techniques that fall into both categories. Firstly there is the simple practice of a nei jia art. In my case bagua. Walking the Circle is a form of moving qigong as is the Ba Duan Jin (Eight Pieces Brocade) which is an excellent qigong technique for beginning Qi cultivation.

As to still qigong, I practice Standing at the Pillar (usually sitting cross-legged actually) and Golden Bell Armour or Cover. Both involve stillness and a certain degree of visualisation of Qi movement within the body.

If you are just starting qigong practice I would recommend Standing at the Pillar and the Ba Duan Jin. You can easily get books on both most places.

Something to remember. Nourishing Qi is something we can take into our bodies. The easiest way is by breathing. In Qi theory it is believed that the Earth inhales and exhales Qi. It exhales in the morning and inhales in the evening. So it is best to practice qigong in the morning. And under trees because the branches of the trees temporarily traps the Earth's exhaled Qi allowing us mere mortals to gather it.

That's why when you see pictures of qigong practice from China, it is usualy in the morning and the practitioner are standing under trees.
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
I thought Golden Bell Cover was more of a hard body method?
 

Steel Tiger

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
2,412
Reaction score
77
Location
Canberra, Australia
I thought Golden Bell Cover was more of a hard body method?

I think that there is some confusion between Golden Bell and Iron Shirt. the confusion comes from their attempting to attain the same goal. They go about it is different ways.

Iron Shirt is the better known technique and I would definitely describe it as a hard body method.

Golden Bell is more esoteric. It involves developing a visualisation of a bell shape of qi around you. It is all about gathering and manipulating qi. I was taught to do it in five parts or progressions. I can comfortably and regularly get to the second progression and push into the third progression for a short time. But, I have only been doing it for 15 years so I think my progress isn't too bad.

Incidently, one of the most famous practitioners of Golden Bell Armour was Bai Mei. It is said that he developed his "Phoenix Eye Fist" style as a counter to Golden Bell.
 
OP
Samuraifan

Samuraifan

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Location
Melbourne, Australia
If you are just starting qigong practice I would recommend Standing at the Pillar and the Ba Duan Jin. You can easily get books on both most places.

okay, thanks for pointing me into the right direction. Now I just to find some sources to look at.

Something to remember. Nourishing Qi is something we can take into our bodies. The easiest way is by breathing. In Qi theory it is believed that the Earth inhales and exhales Qi. It exhales in the morning and inhales in the evening. So it is best to practice qigong in the morning. And under trees because the branches of the trees temporarily traps the Earth's exhaled Qi allowing us mere mortals to gather it.

Ahh I see, Thanks again for that. I will be sure to remember it. I always wondered why I saw practitioners practicing under trees and in the morning.
 

ChingChuan

Blue Belt
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
217
Reaction score
5
Location
The Netherlands
I hope I'm allowed to hijack this thread because I've got some questions that probably fit into this thread ;).

Last year, I studied Taoism for a philosophy project (it was about eastern epistemology) so I also had to research the concept of Chi. However, it doesn't seem to fit in with which people are saying in this thread, so I was wondering how it does fit in ;).

Apparently, the world according to a Taoist is a 'process'. It's not the unmoving, unaltering which is called 'real' (the Idea of Plato) but it's the moving/altering which is real - for instance, where a Western philosopher would call a tree real because it stays the same regardless of it having leaves (so there is a genereal idea of a tree, a main concept which stays the same), an Eastern philosopher would say that the 'being' of the tree (the idea) would be in the change (with/without leaves, different colours).
So, the world is constantly moving. This 'moving' is called Tao, the way. This is the 'big' mystery of the world in Taoism. The Tao has to be 'active' in a kind of 'space'. Apparently, Chi is this space. There can be 'concentrations' of Chi (more or less), which follow a kind of 'wave' like graph (sinusoid) and apparently, the concepts Yin and Yang also come from that. The concentrations of Chi are governed by Tao. Everything apparently 'is' or consists of Chi.

The Taoist believes that he has to 'experience' in order to know. If you want to know how to care for a tree, you should actually do it, instead of looking at the tree, because by looking alone you won't master it. This is like how Tao apparently works - it causes Chi to 'vibrate', so everything has to 'vibrate' with it (go along in the movement). So the best way to live is to uh... 'vibrate' with the chi / allow yourself to go 'with the Tao ('flow').

Well, how does this philosophical approach of Chi fit in with the uh, more practical approach? For instance, I was wondering about meridians - if everything consists of Chi, how can there be 'canals' and 'pressurepoints' etc in it? Also, if Chi is influenced by drinking/smoking etc, how can it still 'be' the world?

My interest in this matter is solely philosophical (I'm not interested in learning it or something!), I just want to know how it 'works' ;).
 

Steel Tiger

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
2,412
Reaction score
77
Location
Canberra, Australia
Well, how does this philosophical approach of Chi fit in with the uh, more practical approach? For instance, I was wondering about meridians - if everything consists of Chi, how can there be 'canals' and 'pressurepoints' etc in it? Also, if Chi is influenced by drinking/smoking etc, how can it still 'be' the world?

My interest in this matter is solely philosophical (I'm not interested in learning it or something!), I just want to know how it 'works' ;).


This philosophical approach is quite good, but I would make one small modification. Rather than saying everything consists of Qi, I would say everything has Qi. If you don't have Qi you are not alive.

A healthy body usually equates to healthy Qi.

Qi is, as you say, constantly in motion and it is throught the meridians that we can begin to understand the motion. But as with most things Daoist, this is not real understanding but the closest approxiamation to it that we currently have.

Afterall, to understand the Dao is to be illumined.
 

Shiatsu Trace

White Belt
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
What a great discussion on Ki / Qi / Chi.

I wish I had found this thread before writing my post on the subject.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on it

www.shiatsu-do.co.nr


Ive just started to read an article in Qi - The journal of Traditional Eastern Health & Fitness (Summer 2007), written by Ken Rose on this very subject. He believes that calling Qi energy does not go far enough to fully explain it. Ken puts forward that the words connectivity, communication, change and movement give a clearer picture of Qi and goes on to say that this suggests that Qi is not primarily a concrete thing but an abstract quality of concrete things. Qi is a consequence of the ever-changing dance of yin and yang (p.21). Ken goes on to explian that the only universal constant is chage, and change takes place as a result of and through the most fundamental medium of yin and yang. The force and fact of this pattern in qi.


Ken concludes with, Qi is that which ..it is the fact that ..all things, events, phenomena interconnect, intercommunicate, interchange and move. It is the medium of change from the most fundamental, proto-typical aspects of the universe to the whole throbbing mass of universal emptiness.
There is much more to the article and well worth submerging yourself in, given the opportunity. It and the other descriptions given above have helped me to refocus on what it is I am doing as a Shiatsu practitioner which is to help and support individuals through their own changes in what ever shape or form that may present or take.

(sorry about the bold bit, couldn't take it off!)
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
33,551
Reaction score
8,434
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Chinese language (pinyin) CMA and TCM POV

Qi (Chinese) = physical life force. Strong Qi you are healthy weak qi you are sick no qi you are dead

Ki (Japanese) = physical life force. Strong Kii you are healthy weak ki you are sick no ki you are dead

Chi = Spelled wrong
 

I am

White Belt
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Greetings from a new member,

I joined to reply to this post, then saw " a simple chi exercise" posted further down, which is much more along the lines of the point I want to make.

I think it's great when people spend time trying to mentally understand chi/ki/qi. There's a place for placing it in a religious context if that's your cup of tea, dissecting the root characters, following it through history etc. But I worry about people who use only the cerebral approach and have never ever actually felt their own ki or the ki from another person/animal/plant.

After 13 years of feeling ki and teaching others how to feel it, I have found that about 10 % of the population truely cannot sense it in any form - ie not the tactile warmth/cold/sense of flow or magnetism, not the auditory version of it where you might hear music or other sounds, not the visual form where you may see colors in the chakras, or see the meridians flow. A very rare form of sensing it would be gustatory where you 'taste' ki, but that's the least common.... tactile is the most common and that's why so many exercises have you feel the energy out of your hands, or out of/ in front of your body. Plase keep in mind if you're not a tactile person, those instructions will drive you nuts and you'll be kept wondering what is wrong with you, why you can't sense the ki when everyone you know seems to be able to. If you simply can't sense anything after earnestly trying 2 or 3 times, there might be value for you to find a mentor ( can be in person, can be online with someone who knows how to do long-distance) to scan your energy field and help you open yourself.

Ki is applicable to martial arts just as much as your daily life, even your relationship to your children, your spouse, your neighbors. There is value in developing your ability to sense your own ki and to foster it. Time should be taken also to develop energetic protection so that others are not draining you. Messing with someone else's ki is something I only do with their permission, it can be done in person just as easily as long distance ( I do it over the internet). But again, all these things are just *concepts* unless you have taken the time to slow down and experience the ki, not just study it.

Last thought: it's nice to be able to follow a protocol / ritual/ ceremony as you guys are mentioning, such as visualizations etc but I encourage you to be bold, find your own ways of playing with the energy rather than just doing the same thing over and over. As we all know, doing the same thing over and over always leads to the same result, and I'm pretty sure we're all studying the martial arts to grow and not stagnate.

XOX Nikki
 

East Winds

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
756
Reaction score
32
Location
Scotland
I am,

Your quote "Messing with someone else's ki is something I only do with their permission....." interested me. As we know (or should know) Chi/Ki moves in the body in one of two directions. How do you determine the direction of Chi flow when applying a treatment? For, as we also know, blocking or interfering with Chi/Ki flow can have serious consequences for an individual. One of my Taiji teachers (also a Doctor of TCM) used to say, he spent more time correcting bad Reiki treatments than he did any other type of treatment. I would welcome your comments.

Very best wishes
 

Latest Discussions

Top