Censorship

[Rich Parsons]

I've blocked a couple of posters, but my usual thing is to just outlast them, they leave eventually. 😃

Unfortunately, some learn to walk that line and stick around, come in and then go away and then come back.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Yeah, I do disagree a little bit on this one, in that as long as you have that title under your name, you are not posting as "just" a poster. We can just disagree on this one, but I don't think you'll ever convince me that moderators and mentors don't set the tone around here. I believe you do, whether you like it or not. Think of it like the debate sparked by Charles Barkley's quote, "I am not a role model."

Just My Opinion

Moderators and Mentors should set the tone.
The tone being the ToS.
The Charter.
And anything else used to define the characteristics of the site.

Yet, so DOES EVER SINGLE POSTER.
Let me repeat that.
So Does Ever Single Poster.

If all the posters conflict and argue then that tone is set.
If all the posters review the charter "friendly discussion" and ToS and can play nice with each other, then the Staff can take a very long break.

 

[Steve]

Yes agree to disagree on many things

Off to a good start. You seem earnest, so I'll try to respond in kind.

By saying "YOU" and to a Moderator even with your follow up post it still "reads" like you have an issue with the staff.
It would be nice to know if there was a real issue or just sand paper over time where it is just raw for you?

Sorry, where did I ever give the impression that I don't? Though, in truth, it's just a few who set the tone. I actually like most of the mods and mentors, enjoy their posts, and appreciate the hard work they do. A few though... phew. Remember that time you called me a troll? Those were good times. LOL.

The Follow up reads like damage control to me. Not just clarification.

Fair enough. You're coming at this with a particular perspective. I appreciate that.

And if someone explains the same thing over and over to myself, I ask why.
Why are they saying this? I get it. Or I don't agree, and they know it.
So Steve why do you say it over and over?
Oh yes the follow up that says please be patient in 6 months of so for the same topic.

I think the wit was lost on you. This entire site is the same stuff being discussed over and over. I know... it's not funny if it has to be explained. I think @Monkey Turned Wolf understood the tongue in cheek comment and I would hope most others did, too.

Curious minds and all.
** Note: I don't expect a reply in public nor private move for self contemplation **

I sincerely don't understand what this means.

To me worth has no issue for who is trolling.

Agreed.

A troll is someone who asks A gets response to A and then says no I meant B and then gets response to B and then proceeds to:
Attack the responders
Accuse the responders of ganging up (* Passive aggressive trolling *)
Put out more Red Herrings
Purposefully cross post a reply to the wrong poster

That is a strangely specific definition of troll, and not how it's generally defined. That said, I appreciate your clarification. I have a different definition of a troll. The other day, a person came onto the site and posted something like "to chi or not to chi". He had like 3 posts, all of them inflammatory, and he was a member for a full day. The threads were locked and I presume he lost interest and off he goes. That's a troll.

Here's another thing I think is interesting. If you replace "troll" with "bully" in your definition above, it's pretty clear that you're blaming the victim, which is a tactic that bullies commonly employ. Sort of a "oh, you think I'm a bully? You're the real bully here" thing.

It's also notable that you use terms like "purposefully". Again this gets to intent, which is a lot of the stuff I mentioned earlier. If you presume good intent, suddenly things seem like mistakes. If you presume their "purposeful" they become more sinister. Unless you're calling someone "boy" or "idiot". That's hard to take in a positive way no matter how you cut it.

...

And if people pay attention I will reply with similar words and phrases and if they get violent or threatening then yes one could say it was trolling them, yet if it truly was trolling them then does it not mean they were trolling in the first place?

Okay, I thought about a few different ways to respond to this, but I'll just say that it's concerning to me that you 1) admit to trolling people (not sure if you mean here or in real life. 2) That you seem to make people violent or threatening on purpose, which seems malicious and cruel to me, and 3) that you fall right back into the "I'm not the troll, they're the troll" defense.

PS: Some Trolls troll unconsciously and are not conscious of the unconscious trolling. Now if only they unconscious was conscious of the unconsciously trolling and let the conscious in on the message so they could see .... Oh Wait This is not existentialism. My Bad.

Oh boy....

I would really like to see examples of this.
Or better yet.
Put them in a simple write up and send to a Senior Mod or Admin.

I have, and will continue to do so, if you like.

** use of One as this could be anyone and not just Steve's Post **

another odd statement that in the context of your previous sentences, I just don't know what you mean.

Perspective is reality for most people.

Deep. I like it.

And if one is going to call out others on perspective then one should also be willing to stand back and call themselves out.

100%. I am a flawed individual, always looking to do better. How about you? Are you the introspective sort?

They should look at it from the other side as well.
If not then one has to ask why are they in the debate in the first place.

Why are you here, Rich?

I agree 100%.



See Above about calling out Staff, and later follow up post to say not specifically to CYA.

Are you seriously suggesting that folks should call other folks out specifically? Are you going to call me a sociopath again? Is that where this is headed? Oh wait. That was someone else. You called me a troll, if I recall correctly.

My perspective is that after posting you realized that you may have crossed a line and need to walk it back to that line to be safe.

I guess my problem is that I don't always know where the line is, because I didn't feel anywhere near it in this thread.

Which is where most of the Trolls or Hot Posters or conflict people learn to post.

Okay.

Just like in any org for competition once there are rules, people will game the rules.




I think some long time members get frustrated in their life and do Troll here from time to time and then back off to not loose their position here at this site.

I do think there are nuisance posters here. My Opinion. When I was staff, and I held all current and other positions in the past, there would be no reason for a Staff if people were not being a nuisance.

It's pretty clear that you know exactly where the line is, yourself, my friend.

My generic opinion:
When new folks come in knowing more about all martial arts then anyone expert here in there area of expertise , these are your door to door religious people. They are not there to have a discussion. They are there to tell you are WRONG, and WHY YOU ARE WRONG.
** Note: Not Steve in this case - obviously not new, and using generic plural you **
They do not want to have you tell them anything. They wand you to listen to them.
Almost like a cult or blind faith or *Insert other comparison here*

Sometimes, sure. Sometimes, they just aren't your type of people.

Just My Opinion

Moderators and Mentors should set the tone.
The tone being the ToS.
The Charter.
And anything else used to define the characteristics of the site.

Yet, so DOES EVER SINGLE POSTER.

As the head goes, so goes the body. This reads to me like deflection.

If an employee tries to bully his boss, how does the boss handle it? Any number of ways, because the boss has the power to address the situation. The boss can direct the employee to stop. The boss can coach the employee and ultimately, the boss can discipline the employee and even ultimately fire them for misconduct.

But what if the boss is bullying the employee? The employee can't discipline the boss. The employee can't coach the boss or direct the boss. The employee certainly can't fire the boss.

And if the boss is a bully, they will cultivate a culture of bullying. And in an office where there are 10 bosses, if two of them are bullies, itc can poison the entire office.

There's an old saying, 'People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."

Let me repeat that.
So Does Ever Single Poster

If all the posters conflict and argue then that tone is set.
If all the posters review the charter "friendly discussion" and ToS and can play nice with each other, then the Staff can take a very long break.

And if the staff aren't friendly, the posters won't be either. Do you think of yourself as a friendly poster, Rich? I'm guessing you do.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Off to a good start. You seem earnest, so I'll try to respond in kind.



Sorry, where did I ever give the impression that I don't? Though, in truth, it's just a few who set the tone. I actually like most of the mods and mentors, enjoy their posts, and appreciate the hard work they do. A few though... phew. Remember that time you called me a troll? Those were good times. LOL.



Fair enough. You're coming at this with a particular perspective. I appreciate that.



I think the wit was lost on you. This entire site is the same stuff being discussed over and over. I know... it's not funny if it has to be explained. I think @Monkey Turned Wolf understood the tongue in cheek comment and I would hope most others did, too.


I sincerely don't understand what this means.


Agreed.



That is a strangely specific definition of troll, and not how it's generally defined. That said, I appreciate your clarification. I have a different definition of a troll. The other day, a person came onto the site and posted something like "to chi or not to chi". He had like 3 posts, all of them inflammatory, and he was a member for a full day. The threads were locked and I presume he lost interest and off he goes. That's a troll.

Here's another thing I think is interesting. If you replace "troll" with "bully" in your definition above, it's pretty clear that you're blaming the victim, which is a tactic that bullies commonly employ. Sort of a "oh, you think I'm a bully? You're the real bully here" thing.

It's also notable that you use terms like "purposefully". Again this gets to intent, which is a lot of the stuff I mentioned earlier. If you presume good intent, suddenly things seem like mistakes. If you presume their "purposeful" they become more sinister. Unless you're calling someone "boy" or "idiot". That's hard to take in a positive way no matter how you cut it.


Okay, I thought about a few different ways to respond to this, but I'll just say that it's concerning to me that you 1) admit to trolling people (not sure if you mean here or in real life. 2) That you seem to make people violent or threatening on purpose, which seems malicious and cruel to me, and 3) that you fall right back into the "I'm not the troll, they're the troll" defense.


Oh boy....



I have, and will continue to do so, if you like.


another odd statement that in the context of your previous sentences, I just don't know what you mean.



Deep. I like it.


100%. I am a flawed individual, always looking to do better. How about you? Are you the introspective sort?

Why are you here, Rich?

Are you seriously suggesting that folks should call other folks out specifically? Are you going to call me a sociopath again? Is that where this is headed? Oh wait. That was someone else. You called me a troll, if I recall correctly.



I guess my problem is that I don't always know where the line is, because I didn't feel anywhere near it in this thread.


Okay.

It's pretty clear that you know exactly where the line is, yourself, my friend.



Sometimes, sure. Sometimes, they just aren't your type of people.



As the head goes, so goes the body. This reads to me like deflection.

If an employee tries to bully his boss, how does the boss handle it? Any number of ways, because the boss has the power to address the situation. The boss can direct the employee to stop. The boss can coach the employee and ultimately, the boss can discipline the employee and even ultimately fire them for misconduct.

But what if the boss is bullying the employee? The employee can't discipline the boss. The employee can't coach the boss or direct the boss. The employee certainly can't fire the boss.

And if the boss is a bully, they will cultivate a culture of bullying. And in an office where there are 10 bosses, if two of them are bullies, itc can poison the entire office.

There's an old saying, 'People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."




And if the staff aren't friendly, the posters won't be either. Do you think of yourself as a friendly poster, Rich? I'm guessing you do.

Thank you Steve

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This thread is now unlocked. Please avoid any personal attacks on other members, or focusing on specific posters rather than the topic, as much as this thread/topic allows for that.

 

[Jimmythebull]

blocked a couple of posters, but my usual thing is to just outlast them, they leave eventually. 😃

Maybe it's you?
Just saying 🤣

 

[Jimmythebull]

I honestly don't feel the need to agree with everyone on here nor do I feel I need to Block or report people. If someone doesn't like me or my posts then feel free to Block me.
Some people like to Pop their head up now and again, make a silly funny comment then expect no Comeback. It's like the old saying, don't give it out if you can't take it. Also I don't feel I need to be quite as the "New boy" on here. We're on an Internet forum.

 

[Jimmythebull]

If all the posters conflict and argue then that tone is set.
If all the posters review the charter "friendly discussion" and ToS and can play nice with each other, then the Staff can take a very long break.

I think people should say their opinions as long as it's not insulting. However people shouldn't just think because they've been on here 10 years it gives them some kind of rights to be little others & expect a free pass.
It doesn't interest me if the poster is a woman or a man, how old they are or if they have 10 black belts.
But you're a good egg rich

 

[tkdroamer]

I wanted to put these quotes together because they reflect an not uncommon situation we encounter during moderation.

During the course of a discussion (or a series of discussions) things start to get heated between members A and B. Inappropriate language is used, behavior starts to push the bounds of the terms of service.

Usually by this time the mods are monitoring the situation and may drop a public "play nice" warning into the thread. However things don't cool down and we collectively decide that one or more parties have crossed the line sufficiently so that they have to receive consequences, which can range from a simple warning, to points on a members record, to a temporary suspension, or even a permanent ban. So we go to member A with a message saying "your behavior in this thread violates the following rules, you are receiving the following consequences." (This will usually be just a warning for first offenses unless the behavior is really egregious.) Very often the reaction we get from member A is that we are playing favorites, that member B's behavior was much worse, obviously we are prejudiced against A and we like B better. (This is particularly likely if A and B have a long-term pattern of getting on each other's nerves.)

The thing is, as jks9199 said, we don't discuss disciplinary actions with anyone except the affected person. For all A knows, we actually handed out a much stiffer punishment to B. Sometimes that is exactly what has happened. We will not announce this publicly. If A and B are being jerks to each other, then we are not going to tell everyone that "A was x bad, but B was 2x bad." Each person will be told what they need to work on and that is what they personally need to work on. If a member feels that they can't stay within the bounds of civility due to another member's posts, then they can ignore them either with the forum feature which allows them to do that automatically or by exercising enough self-control to skip past those posts.

I fully realize I have no dog in this race. I sure we have all been on both the giving end and receiving end of 'forum fury' and know it is hard to give the floor sometimes.

FWIW, I moderate a few sites totally non-related to the martial arts. They relate to my technical field of work and believe me when I say egos and personalities flare at times. One is even pay to play and is by far the hardest to moderate. When we give warnings or points, it always come with a detailed explanation. Not just a blurb from a post and notification that they received a point. More often than not, when the perspective is explained from the other viewpoint the poster comes around to understand why they are being dinged.
I read over the Terms and Rules (could not specifically find a TOS) and it does not explain the points system at all. That is confusing to most people.


I don't expect anything to come from this post. Just wanted to offer it in the hopes it will help somewhere.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I fully realize I have no dog in this race. I sure we have all been on both the giving end and receiving end of 'forum fury' and know it is hard to give the floor sometimes.

FWIW, I moderate a few sites totally non-related to the martial arts. They relate to my technical field of work and believe me when I say egos and personalities flare at times. One is even pay to play and is by far the hardest to moderate. When we give warnings or points, it always come with a detailed explanation. Not just a blurb from a post and notification that they received a point. More often than not, when the perspective is explained from the other viewpoint the poster comes around to understand why they are being dinged.
I read over the Terms and Rules (could not specifically find a TOS) and it does not explain the points system at all. That is confusing to most people.


I don't expect anything to come from this post. Just wanted to offer it in the hopes it will help somewhere.

Somewhere there is a post that explains the points system. I'm not sure if it's easy to find, nor even if it's entirely current. I'll put it on our "to consider" list.

We started some cleanup and reorganization of these types of posts some time ago, but life keeps stepping in to interrupt the process.

 

[jks9199]

Somewhere there is a post that explains the points system. I'm not sure if it's easy to find, nor even if it's entirely current. I'll put it on our "to consider" list.

We started some cleanup and reorganization of these types of posts some time ago, but life keeps stepping in to interrupt the process.

I admit, they could be easier to find -- but they're there. Generally, when points are given to someone, we do explain why to that person. Otherwise, we'de just be slapping people and they'd have no clue why. Remember that the Staff are volunteers with various obligations in life.

See The Rules: MartialTalk.com Forum Rules and Procedures

5.7 Infraction System

The following explains the infraction system on the boards. The rules themselves have not changed, but this is a good way for you to track how many infractions/warnings you've received and for the Admins to track how many infractions/warnings have been issued.

With a few exceptions, each infraction will generate expiring points. If someone accumulates 5 infraction points they will have their account restricted until the points expire. If they earn 10 or more points, their account will be suspended until the points expire. 25 points earns you a permanent ban from MartialTalk.

It is possible to get warnings too. Sometimes you will get a warning rather than an infraction. Warnings look like infractions but are worth 0 points and do not count toward your infraction total. Warnings would usually apply to more minor violations, or first time violations.

You may view your infractions points on your profile page. No one else is able to see how many infractions you have. If you do not see any infractions listed that means you have not received one. When you do get an infraction, a private message is sent to you. Infraction points expire after a certain number of days, so your point total can go down.

Restricted = 5 points - Account is in the "Discouraged" group and will find the system slow to use.
Suspension = 10 points - Account is suspended for 7 days.
Suspension = 15 points - Account is suspended for 3 weeks.
Suspension = 20 points - Account is suspended for 6 months.
Ban = 25 points - Account is banned permanently.

Suspensions of other durations are at the discretion of the Staff.

Keep in mind that most infraction points expire after a short period of time. This is marked as an expiration date. Expired infractions have 0 points.

Any suspended user attempting to circumvent a temporary ban by posting under another user name will be banned permanently. Permanently banned members who create new names will be removed from the site without additional warning when they are discovered and their ISPs contacted.

We reserve the right to ban people immediately as we deem appropriate. Please be aware that posters who deliberately and viciously break the rules may be permanently banned with no warning. Ruling on whether a permanent ban is necessary is ultimately left up to the discretion of the board moderators and administrators. We reserve the right to add additional Infractions to this list as needed.

5.8 Moderation Policies

Generally speaking, Administrators and Moderators endeavor to provide fair warning regarding behavior which might warrant their intervention. Failure to heed warnings from the moderators and/or administrators is grounds for suspension of posting privileges. Except in the case of malicious behavior such as spamming or flooding which requires an immediate response, the decision to disable an account requires a consensus of the Moderation Team, to ensure objectivity.

You agree that if any of these rules are abused, the offending message may be removed without prior notice, and if you repeatedly violate any of these rules or otherwise seek to disrupt the board then the administrators can disable your account at their discretion. You also agree that this is private property and you are our guest, and that MartialTalk reserves the right to delete any message.

You recognize the real-time nature of this bulletin board: MartialTalk cannot always monitor the contents of posted messages, and we depend upon you to inform us when participants or their messages are violating our policy as stated here. You also recognize that we cannot respond immediately to such notices and that some time may pass before any warranted action is taken.

You recognize that MartialTalk does not vouch for or warrant the accuracy of any information posted here, and that any message expresses the views of its author, not necessarily the views of this BBS or any entity associated with this BBS.

As a Discussion Board/Chat Room User ("User"), you are responsible for your own communications and are responsible for the consequences of posting those communications.

MartialTalk.com ("Agent" or "Company") does not represent or guarantee the truthfulness, accuracy, or reliability of any of material posted by Discussion Board/Chat Room Users or endorse any opinions expressed by Users. User acknowledges that any reliance on material posted by other Users will be at User s own risk.

Agent does not screen communications in advance and is not responsible for screening or monitoring material posted by Users. If notified by a User of communications which allegedly do not conform to this Discussion Board/Chat Room Agreement, Company may investigate the allegation and determine in good faith and its sole discretion whether to remove or request the removal of the communication. Company has no liability or responsibility to Users for performance or nonperformance of such activities.

Company reserves the right to expel Users and prevent their further access to the Discussion Board/Chat Room for violating the Discussion Board/Chat Room Agreement or the law and the right to remove communications which are abusive, illegal, or disruptive.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I made up 3 general rules for social media. I chose the number three because it's small and I can remember about three things at a time.

1, laugh, it's all fun, even if it doesn't seem that way.

2, don't take no **** from anybody. See 1.

3, when it comes to martial arts, if you're in this for the long game, we'll all be combate for some time, so get used to the feeling. See 2, then 1.

Bump, because I put a lot of thought into these, and it took me over a decade to figure them out.

Bodhidharma only spent seven examining a cave wall.

 

[Gyakuto]

I live my life by ‘treat others how you’d wish to be treated’ and ‘be nice, humorous and cheerful’. It’s only certain others that sometimes prevent me from following my guidelines 🙄

 

[Gyakuto]

Bump, because I put a lot of thought into these, and it took me over a decade to figure them out.

Bodhidharma only spent seven examining a cave wall.

I think it was nine years, but I’m sure he wasn’t counting 😃

 

[Oily Dragon]

I think it was nine years, but I’m sure he wasn’t counting 😃

Epic facepalm.

This is what I get for listening to Iron Maiden all day.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think it was nine years, but I’m sure he wasn’t counting 😃

He didn't speak or do anything else of interest, what better thing to do than count the days?

 

[Gyakuto]

Epic facepalm.

This is what I get for listening to Iron Maiden all day.

With such a dire error of fact, surely you should run to the hills!😉 (see what I did there? Did you? Did you see it?)

 

[Dirty Dog]

With such a dire error of fact, surely you should run to the hills!😉 (see what I did there? Did you? Did you see it?)

He said Iron Maiden, not Dire Straits...

 

[Gyakuto]

He said Iron Maiden, not Dire Straits...

Dire Straits and Geordie crooner, Chris Rhea were going to form a super-group once. The idea was abandoned when they realised they’d be called Dire Rhea. (Oldie but a goodie)

 

[Oily Dragon]

With such a dire error of fact, surely you should run to the hills!😉 (see what I did there? Did you? Did you see it?)

I read that as French.

Actual, Latin popped in first the more I think about it, and then French.