can anyone tell me how effective bjj is for self defence
- Thread starter eggg1994
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Supra Vijai
Black Belt
Hey eggg, I don't do BJJ so I can't really give too much advice but just wanted to say great post, I think you'll find a lot more people will be a lot nicer to you and help you when you ask questions this way
Good luck with getting the information you want!Anything has the potential to be effective in self defense. Of course, some arts are more effective than others, but alot does come down to how each person trains it. Self defense is a very broad term, as it covers alot. Is it effective for survival on the ground? Yes. Is it effective for armed attacks? Supposedly there are weapon defenses, but I'd say alot is going to depend on the school. In other words, if its strictly a sport based school, then no, chances are, that type of stuff wont be covered.
There are a number of positions, locks, chokes, etc., in BJJ. Am I going to list every single thing? No. Why? Because its not going to do you any good. My suggestion would be to take your time, and learn things gradually, as your inst. teaches them to you. As I said in another post, many times its hard to understand what someone is trying to say by reading, especially if the person reading, has no idea what the other person is talking about.
WC_lun
Senior Master
Self defense has very little to do with techniques. Self-defense starts and ends with awareness. Awareness of your surrounding, awareness of what a potential attacker is doing, and awareness of how you can stop what he is doing.
Study what your school teaches. Train hard and with a curious mind. Test what you are learning. Eventually you will learn the concepts and principles your system is based upon and you will be able to use whatever technique is needed at a particular moment, even creating your own as the need arises.
Self defense is not about a particlar style. No style is better or worse for self defense. I have seen a martial artist from a "sport" style defend himself against multiple attackers. I've also seen a high level practitioner of a "true combat system" get his backside handed to him by a smaller, drunken man. It is about what you train and how you train it.
You should be aware that self defense and sport training are different. The skills do cross over, but they are not exactly trained the same way. If you are training to compete in grappling tournaments, that means you are not training for self defense. That doesn't mean that you can't defend yourself using what you know, just that there are differences in training due to focus. I'll use an arm bar for example. In sporting you apply an arm bar in an attempt to get your opponent to submitt, so you can win the match. For self defense, you break thier arm. Putting him in an arm bar waiting for him to submitt to your greater skills, hoping he just gives up afterward, is not realistic. The key is training with the awareness of the difference between a match and a fight.
Study what your school teaches. Train hard and with a curious mind. Test what you are learning. Eventually you will learn the concepts and principles your system is based upon and you will be able to use whatever technique is needed at a particular moment, even creating your own as the need arises.
Self defense is not about a particlar style. No style is better or worse for self defense. I have seen a martial artist from a "sport" style defend himself against multiple attackers. I've also seen a high level practitioner of a "true combat system" get his backside handed to him by a smaller, drunken man. It is about what you train and how you train it.
You should be aware that self defense and sport training are different. The skills do cross over, but they are not exactly trained the same way. If you are training to compete in grappling tournaments, that means you are not training for self defense. That doesn't mean that you can't defend yourself using what you know, just that there are differences in training due to focus. I'll use an arm bar for example. In sporting you apply an arm bar in an attempt to get your opponent to submitt, so you can win the match. For self defense, you break thier arm. Putting him in an arm bar waiting for him to submitt to your greater skills, hoping he just gives up afterward, is not realistic. The key is training with the awareness of the difference between a match and a fight.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi eggg1994,
Probably the best thing that we can tell you is that there really is no such thing as a self defence technique. With regards to specific locks, throws, and chokes, there is no way to tell you what would or would not be effective, as they are really just methods used that need to be appropriate to the situation. Some situations may call for a rear naked choke, some for a takedown and control, some for a broken arm, and many (in fact most) others will call for getting distance and leaving the situation.
In terms of how effective BJJ is, that, as others have said, will depend more on how it is trained, rather than the mechanical aspects itself. But if you are asking how effective it can be (when trained properly with self defence as a primary goal), BJJ is what is refered to as a specialist system. It focuses on a specific range (grappling), and seeks to turn every use to that range. So provided you can always get the situation into the range that BJJ prefers, it can be highly effective. But it just comes down to how well you can follow what BJJ teaches and do that.
The techniques themselves are no-where near as important as your ability to be aware of danger and leave before it gets beyond your ability to escape.
Probably the best thing that we can tell you is that there really is no such thing as a self defence technique. With regards to specific locks, throws, and chokes, there is no way to tell you what would or would not be effective, as they are really just methods used that need to be appropriate to the situation. Some situations may call for a rear naked choke, some for a takedown and control, some for a broken arm, and many (in fact most) others will call for getting distance and leaving the situation.
In terms of how effective BJJ is, that, as others have said, will depend more on how it is trained, rather than the mechanical aspects itself. But if you are asking how effective it can be (when trained properly with self defence as a primary goal), BJJ is what is refered to as a specialist system. It focuses on a specific range (grappling), and seeks to turn every use to that range. So provided you can always get the situation into the range that BJJ prefers, it can be highly effective. But it just comes down to how well you can follow what BJJ teaches and do that.
The techniques themselves are no-where near as important as your ability to be aware of danger and leave before it gets beyond your ability to escape.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I don't disagree with anything that others have said, particularly regarding awareness. I've recently said in another thread that I believe that the most important safety feature in a car is an alert driver who is driving defensively. This goes for self defense, too.
I'll add just a couple of positives for BJJ in a self defense situation, although they aren't unique to BJJ. The instant, honest feedback you get from sparring is invaluable. Your sense of what you can and can't do is as close to reality as you can get. In other words, if you are adept enough in certain positions or with certain techniques to catch upper belts, you'll be in good shape against a thug.
Another thing about BJJ is that you will be fit. I'm not as fit as a professional MMA fighter, but I'm in much better shape than probably 80% of 40 year olds in the USA. I know that if push came to shove, my body won't let me down... whether that's to run or to fight.
Lastly, you'll know what you can't do. You'll have a realistic idea of what you're not good at and where your holes are.
All of these are positives, IMO.
I'll add just a couple of positives for BJJ in a self defense situation, although they aren't unique to BJJ. The instant, honest feedback you get from sparring is invaluable. Your sense of what you can and can't do is as close to reality as you can get. In other words, if you are adept enough in certain positions or with certain techniques to catch upper belts, you'll be in good shape against a thug.
Another thing about BJJ is that you will be fit. I'm not as fit as a professional MMA fighter, but I'm in much better shape than probably 80% of 40 year olds in the USA. I know that if push came to shove, my body won't let me down... whether that's to run or to fight.
Lastly, you'll know what you can't do. You'll have a realistic idea of what you're not good at and where your holes are.
All of these are positives, IMO.
I have been fortunate to get a good solid dose of bjj self defense training along with of course countless hours rolling. The self defense techniques of Brazilian Jiujitsu are pretty solid and simple which is some thing I can appreciate. However, unfortunately most bjj schools just gloss over the self defense training and go right into rolling and submission grappling. If you do train with most of the Gracies though you will still get a good enough dose of their self defense material.
Now is BJJ good for self defense? Well it can be like any other system provided the practitioner learns how bjj works and can apply it. In the end it does come down to the practitioner and not the system!
Now is BJJ good for self defense? Well it can be like any other system provided the practitioner learns how bjj works and can apply it. In the end it does come down to the practitioner and not the system!
OP
OP
eggg1994
Orange Belt
well thank you because other people say that bjj sucks for self defence and i am training it for pure self defence and i just want to know if bjj is truely good for self defence because those people who think that bjj sucks for self defence have never even trained in it. sometimes i just want to know what and how bjj is effective for self defence and what i mean is i need proof that bjj is truely effective for self defence besides krav megal
I don't think anyone has categorically said that BJJ "sucks" for self defense. It's got problem areas for self defense -- but so does every other art out there. There's no way to prove that anything works for self defense except to get in situations with real violence. Not exactly a smart plan, huh?
Look at your training. Look at your teachers. If you trust them, and you trust what you're learning, and you train it with an attitude and focus towards defending yourself, it'll work. Otherwise... you're a "pajama dancer."
kungfu penguin
Green Belt
In self defense how u train is more important than X amount of techniques. I think Bruce lee said do not fear the man who knows 10000 techniques. Fear the man who does 1 technique10000 times. Also u need heart and you have to have the resolve to really hurt your fellow man. Without that getting in a fight without that u are probably wasting your time
Supra Vijai
Black Belt
I think it's not so much a case of having the resolve to hurt your fellow man as the desire to get home safe when it comes to self defense. Looking to cause harm to your opponent or to "destroy" them can sound great and look great in movies etc but reality is you will very quickly find yourself going from the "victim" to the "attacker". No matter which art you train, which style etc, if you are looking for self defense you need to take the mindset that you will do what you need to in order to escape the situation and get home in one piece. No more, no less. Both ends can have very bad consequences for you.
Cirdan
Senior Master
The desire to get home in one piece won`t help at all if you do not have the will and willingness to pay the price. kungfu penguin brings up a very valid point there.
Supra Vijai
Black Belt
Point taken Cirdan, I was referring more to the legal implications of any encounter. If the police are called to the scene and witnesses say some guy tried to punch you and you took him down then stomped on his head or broke his arm etc, at least in Australia, you get arrested just as quickly as your attacker. If however you tried to talk him down and/or used only force that was absolutely necessary, then you're clear. In class we refer to this as the second wave. Dealing with law enforcement.
In terms of willingness to pay the price, if you mean bruises of your own etc then agreed completely. If you mean potential jail time, I'm afraid not so much.
Cirdan
Senior Master
Nobody said to stomp on someone`s head, just that you have to be ready to use what you have been trained in. If you are not, then it does not matter because you are living in a dream world. Willingness to use extreme violence does not mean you automatically resort to excessive force in any situation, like you seem to imply.
Supra Vijai
Black Belt
Sorry if that's what my comment came across as, wasn't what I was intending. My response was based on the following line only "Also u need heart and you have to have the resolve to really hurt your fellow man. Without that getting in a fight without that u are probably wasting your time"
That to me implies that you can't successfully defend yourself if you don't have the mindset to really hurt your fellow man as opposed to wanting to get away safe. Sure that may mean causing some injury but it shouldn't be the focus - or at least that's how I see it. As for the stomping on the head thing, it was an example of an extreme only.
That to me implies that you can't successfully defend yourself if you don't have the mindset to really hurt your fellow man as opposed to wanting to get away safe. Sure that may mean causing some injury but it shouldn't be the focus - or at least that's how I see it. As for the stomping on the head thing, it was an example of an extreme only.
Cirdan
Senior Master
But in an extreme situation you might have to really hurt your fellow man to walk away from it. You might have to seriously maim, even kill. If you haven`t trained for this and prepared yourself mentally, how can you ever hope to apply it?
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Yes, very true Cirdan. However the point being made here is that if "having the resolve to really hurt your fellow man" is the emphasis and focus on your training, then that is an unhealthy extreme to constantly remain in. Our modern self defence is predicated on three words: Get Home Safe. If that means avoiding conflict, great. If it is verbal defusion, wonderful. If it is handling an assault and escaping, very good. If it is pre-emptively striking in order to gain the upper hand and get away, that's a big tactic we use as well. And if it means causing real physical and/or psychological damage in order to remove an attackers ability or willingness to continue an assault, or commit such actions again, then that is also definately part of it. But if your approach is predicated on having the mindset of doing harm, you're coming at it from the wrong end of things. That's getting into one of the last resorts.
And Supra never said we don't train for that, by the way....
And Supra never said we don't train for that, by the way....
Cirdan
Senior Master
I think we are moving into nitpicking about wording again.. KF penguin mentions heart and the resolve to do harm which I read as the will to survive and do harm if neccecary. Then again english is not my first language.
I will always look for the best way to do maximum damage. Does not mean I will do so but it could be needed the next split second. Attacks happen with far less warning and with greater force than most suspect.
I will always look for the best way to do maximum damage. Does not mean I will do so but it could be needed the next split second. Attacks happen with far less warning and with greater force than most suspect.
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