Calling Somebody's Dojo A McDojo Is Offensive

[Wing Woo Gar]

Except he started expressing those strong feelings about things that don't apply to his kwoon at #740.

I’m an instructor, your comment applies to me, I didn’t agree with you based on my personal experience.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I’m an instructor, your comment applies to me, I didn’t agree with you based on my personal experience.

Ah, so when I tell someone that they shouldn't tolerate non-answers to "when will I test for this particular rank," or "what do I need to work on before you'll allow me to test," it applies to you even though you stated that there's no testing or rank in your kwoon? This makes zero sense.

 

[Hot Lunch]

It’s the entitled attitude, the consumer approach, the transactional view. Ironically, the very thing you seemed to assume about me in your earlier post.
Don’t worry, I’m not mad at you.

Because that's what it is. You have a business license just like the nearest pub or barbershop.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Do I need to explain why someone might take umbrage with this post?

Don't bother. If you have a problem with a buyer exercising his rights in a free market economy, I'm not interested in knowing your reasoning for it.

 

[Gyakuto]

Not an upper hand, an even hand. You don’t have to train with me, and I don’t have to change my method to accommodate you. If we get past that part, the first week is free. After that, you choose to pay me or not for the service I offer, for as long as that first part remains clear. I don’t sell belts, costumes, patches, tests, tournaments, trophy, philosophy, children’s classes, pats on the back, or unrealistic expectation. I don’t make my living teaching, that gives me the luxury of being able to be 100% about what and who I teach. Money never enters the picture in this regard. If dedicated students can’t pay, they train free. My Sifu taught this way, when I began, if I couldn’t pay dues I mucked out his horse stalls or whatever. I don’t have the transactional view you accuse me of, in any case I charge $7.50 per class. I believe that is reasonable.

$7.50? That’s fantastic and a credit to you. This is also one of the great things about most MA teaching in the U.K. and particularly Kendo, Iaido and Jodo under the auspices of the British Kendo Association: it’s not for profit. Teachers cover the costs of the hall hire, insurance and other overheads and everything else is forbidden under the BKA’s constitution. It totally changes the atmosphere of the teaching in dojo for the better in my opinion. I marvel at the spirit and enthusiasm of my teacher, a noted 7th Dan. He comes along to teach 3 times a week (two classes at 7am) for the love of the art and nurturing us and I think that says something very positive about his character and hopefully this rubs off on us!

 

[Flying Crane]

Don't bother. If you have a problem with a buyer exercising his rights in a free market economy, I'm not interested in knowing your reasoning for it.

I will point out that the comparison with McDonalds and Dairy Queen was calculated to raise some hackles. But of course you know this already. I predict that you will refuse to acknowledge this point, because you like to gaslight.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I will point out that the comparison with McDonalds and Dairy Queen was calculated to raise some hackles. But of course you know this already. I predict that you will refuse to acknowledge this point, because you like to gaslight.

Actually, it's because when you're coming up with another business to use as reference point, McDonald's is the first and easiest one that comes to mind. Dairy Queen recently made a business decision that I didn't like, so I used that. It's not that deep.

 

[Flying Crane]

Actually, it's because when you're coming up with another business to use as reference point, McDonald's and the first and easiest one that comes to mind. Dairy Queen recently made a business decision that I didn't like, so I used that. It's not that deep.

You are right, it’s not that deep: it was a calculated cheap shot.

I predicted you would refuse to acknowledge it and I was right. Gaslight.

 

[Hot Lunch]

You are right, it’s not that deep: it was a calculated cheap shot.

I predicted you would refuse to acknowledge it and I was right. Gaslight.

Or you're looking for things to be mad about. Nothing I can do about that.

 

[Flying Crane]

Or you're looking for things to be mad about. Nothing I can do about that.

Still gaslighting? Carry on.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Still gaslighting? Carry on.

Looking for the last word? Take it.

 

[Flying Crane]

Looking for the last word? Take it.

Ok. You are gaslighting.

 

[Steve]

Seems like there are some crossed wires here. Several of you have made it clear that you have no interest in running a business. You have non-commercial clubs where you get to make the rules, and you're comfortable with the possibility that it will result in few to no students. That's great for you guys. But that's not what this thread is about.

The risk (maybe too strong a word) of running a commercially successful/viable school is that you'll be labelled a McDojo... for your business practices, and for possible concessions you might make to standardize your curriculum to make it more profitable.

The analogous concern with clubs like yours is the risk of your non-commercial club becoming a cult. We've seen that happen, and in schools that are specifically non-commercial, where there is a feeling that you're doing it the old school way with pure motives, unsullied by corporate greed or accountability to a student... that can be a really cool environment, or it can be really bad. But that's the analogous conversation suitable for another thread... if you are interested in talking more about the pros and cons of your specific approach to teaching your art.

 

[Steve]

You are right, it’s not that deep: it was a calculated cheap shot.

I predicted you would refuse to acknowledge it and I was right. Gaslight.

Wait... I missed something. Serious question... do you have some sort of connection to Dairy Queen? Why is that a cheap shot at you? I don't get it. Is it possible that you're taking this a little personally?

 

[Steve]

Actually, it's because when you're coming up with another business to use as reference point, McDonald's and the first and easiest one that comes to mind. Dairy Queen recently made a business decision that I didn't like, so I used that. It's not that deep.

I'm really confused by this latest exchange... what's the deal with Dairy Queen?

 

[Hot Lunch]

I'm really confused by this latest exchange... what's the deal with Dairy Queen?

Dairy Queen recently got rid of the cherry dipped cone. That was the only thing that I went there for. So now, I won't be returning unless they bring it back. I used that to illustrate the point of a consumer exercising their rights in a free market economy.

But they're somehow taking that to mean Dairy Queen is a joke and that I'm comparing their school to it. And now they expect me to try to talk my way out of that. I'm not interested.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Wait... I missed something. Serious question... do you have some sort of connection to Dairy Queen? Why is that a cheap shot at you? I don't get it. Is it possible that you're taking this a little personally?

My assumption is that it's the mcdonalds/fast food references. Given that in MA that tends to be a loaded comparison due to mcdojo claims.

 

[Steve]

My assumption is that it's the mcdonalds/fast food references. Given that in MA that tends to be a loaded comparison due to mcdojo claims.

Okay. I think I’m tracking how. On one hand, I still don't know why anyone who runs a non-commercial outfit thinks this thread applies to them at all.

On the other, I think we can now all agree that @PhotonGuy is right; calling (or in this case, indirectly and possibly unintentionally implying) someone's school a McDojo is offensive. Well done, everyone. It only took 778 posts, but we got the job done.

 

[Gyakuto]

Seems like there are some crossed wires here. Several of you have made it clear that you have no interest in running a business. You have non-commercial clubs where you get to make the rules, and you're comfortable with the possibility that it will result in few to no students. That's great for you guys. But that's not what this thread is about.

Like a little bistro with an enthusiastic chef who can modify and dishes compared to Pizza Express with zombie staff and melted cheese on everything. Actually melted cheese is the best, but most analogies don’t bare close scrutiny!

The risk (maybe too strong a word) of running a commercially successful/viable school is that you'll be labelled a McDojo... for your business practices, and for possible concessions you might make to standardize your curriculum to make it more profitable.

I don’t think a successful dojo (one with many, competent students due to competent teaching ) need be classified as a McDojo. The term, I think, applies to many and poor quality students, teaching from the least qualified of instructors, accelerated Dan grade pathways and every opportunity to extract money from the poor students.

The analogous concern with clubs like yours is the risk of your non-commercial club becoming a cult.

Cult definition-
1. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St Olaf"
2.
a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society.
"the series has become a bit of a cult in the UK"

Just for clarity which of these do you mean, Steve?

We've seen that happen,

I’m genuinely intrigued! Can you give an example?

and in schools that are specifically non-commercial, where there is a feeling that you're doing it the old school way with pure motives, unsullied by corporate greed or accountability to a student... that can be a really cool environment, or it can be really bad.

Once making money becomes the primary objective then McDojo begin spring up. It’s either money or fame (usually a bit of both) that are the drivers of McDojo.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Okay. I think I’m tracking how. On one hand, I still don't know why anyone who runs a non-commercial outfit thinks this thread applies to them at all.

On the other, I think we can now all agree that @PhotonGuy is right; calling (or in this case, indirectly and possibly unintentionally implying) someone's school a McDojo is offensive. Well done, everyone. It only took 778 posts, but we got the job done.

I hadn't even registered which thread this was when I replied to you. Somewhere around 100 posts in I lose track.