Bulletmen and Steve Hayes

Tgace

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Talking about "fine motor skills"...as an impact weapon its great...try getting a finger lock with one once the fists are flying.
 
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Connovar

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I have never trained it except as a way of delivering blows. I always thought using it for armlocks etc was kind of silly.If I am willing to go for a submission then I dont need to use a weapon both ethically and legally
 

Cruentus

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Connovar said:
I am thinking of oc spray for your average civilian type. I would expect law enforcement officers etc would have better training and more experience with high stress events.

My experience and others experiences with role playing OC are as follows:

If a person is able to get it out before the attacker is on top of them delevering attacks (even if it is only a second before) the success rate of being able to point and shoot the OC into the other guys face is pretty high.

If, however, their attacker is on top of them delivering attacks before they are able to get to their OC, then it is much more difficult for them to deploy the OC. At this point they have to get the threat to stop (or pause) through distancing techniques and empty hand force methods before I would recommend even attampting to get the OC out. Basically, at this point, the likelyhood of error is MUCH greater then if the OC was out before the physical violence.

So, as I trian/tell people, and as the company I am affiliated with that does OC training more specifically trains people: OC is not your silver bullet. It is part of a totality of your defense training.

I know I am stating the obvious to most of you here, but how many times have you run into someone (usually a woman) who buys pepper spray at the store and expects that it will keep them out of harms way without any training at all? I have seen it lots. They need use of force training for their OC to truely be reliable.

Paul
 

Tgace

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True...I have the luxury of a batman utility belt with an OC holster. I keep the can stored in a specific manner so I can draw it ready to go.
 
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Connovar

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I totally agree. To carry a weapon and not be properly trained in its use is an invitation for disaster.
 

arnisador

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Connovar said:
To carry a weapon and not be properly trained in its use is an invitation for disaster.
Yes, I absolutely agree. That's just looking for it to be taken from you and used against you.
 

MrFunnieman

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Just finished reading the thread...whoah!

Having trained more recently with Mr. Hayes than Deaf, but not having been there for about two years, I would like to comment about the use of the Redman suit at the Dayton Quest Center.

It is used at nearly every belt graduation and we began incorperate the suit in regular classes. I have read Peyton Quinn's books, but have not trained with him personally. Mr. Hayes has trained with Mr. Quinn and they have met on several occasions (not having been a fly on the wall, I feel safe in saying martial arts/ self-defense was discussed). I think that Mr. Hayes was definitely influenced by this kind of training and through his experience and research he has decided it is an important element in the training of the students at the Quest Center.

We would also take advantage of the open mat periods on Saturdays and do more freestyle defenses using the redman suit. The student suits consisted of head gear, gloves, knee pads, and elbow pads. We also had a variation of the redman suit it was a R.A.D. suit (Rape Aggression Defense), which had padding emphasized in other areas.

Please keep in mind that both suits were developed for law enforcement training and are not as specialized as the bulletman suits that Mr. Quinn uses.

I thought the suits had value in my learning process, but as has been discussed there are some shortcomings.

In general I have been agreement with most of what Connovar has had to say and I think that Tulisan has made some great points. I strongly feel that frequently people with unpopular ideas are scrutinized and hen pecked with ferocity on this site. I attribute that to some psychological defense mechanism that helps people to preserve their ego and the sancity of the way they train. It is unfortunate that new insights are quickly shot down. I frequently do not comment on this site because of criticism newcomers receive.
 

Shogun

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I frequently do not comment on this site because of criticism newcomers receive.
Thats true. noobs take the heat. but if you compare a monitored site like MT to sherdog or something, we are gentle fluffy creatures, here.

I thought the suits had value in my learning process, but as has been discussed there are some shortcomings.
I agree. I think the suit can be beneficial, but only if the user is aware of its shortcomings.
 

Cruentus

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Tgace said:
True...I have the luxury of a batman utility belt with an OC holster. I keep the can stored in a specific manner so I can draw it ready to go.

Do you practice rapidly drawing and reholstering your OC while saying things like, "Make my day, Punk!" like Dog's cousin in that one episode of Dog the Bounty Hunter? :rofl:

Um....I'm just asking because that's what I do... ;)
 
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