Bring Back the Lash

Big Don

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Bring Back the Lash

Why flogging is more humane than prison.

By Peter Moskos Washington Monthly EXCERPT:

You’re about to get whipped. Mentally more than physically. It’s going to hurt—but it’s supposed to.

I write in defense of flogging, something most people consider too radical for debate and even unworthy of intellectual discussion. But please, donÂ’t turn the page, upset I dared to broach the subject.

My defense of flogging—whipping, caning, lashing, call it what you will—is meant to be provocative, but only because something extreme is needed to shatter the status quo. There are 2.3 million Americans in our prisons and jails. That is too many. I want to reduce cruelty, and corporal punishment, once common in America and still practiced in places like Singapore, may be the answer.

So first let me begin with a simple question: Given the choice between five years in prison and ten brutal lashes, which would you choose?
Yes, flogging is a severe and even brutal form of punishment. Under the lash, skin is literally ripped from the body. But prison means losing a part of your life and everything you care for. Compared to this, flogging is just a few very painful strokes on the behind. And itÂ’s over in a few minutes.
If you had the choice, if you were given the option of staying out of jail, wouldnÂ’t you choose to be flogged and released?
Consider your answer to that question. Then consider the fact that the United States now has more prisoners than any other country in the world. Ever. In sheer numbers and as a percentage of the population. Our rate of incarceration is roughly seven times that of Canada or any Western European country. Despite our “land of the free” rhetoric, we deem it necessary to incarcerate more of our people than the world’s most draconian regimes. We have more prisoners than China, and they have a billion more people than we do. We have more prisoners than soldiers; prison guards outnumber Marines.

<<<SNIP>>>
The lash, which metes out punishment without falsely promising betterment, is an unequivocal expression of society’s condemnation. For better and for worse, flogging would air the dirty laundry of race and punishment in America in a way that prisons—which, by their very design, are removed from society—can never do. To highlight an injustice is in no way to condone it. Quite the opposite.
END EXCERPT
Interesting. You could also raise money this way, sell tickets to be the, er, designated hitter...
IMNSHO, this would work, but, it would work a lot better if done in the open. People argue that Capital Punishment doesn't work as a deterrent. My argument would be that if executions, be they hangings, electrocutions, or gas chambers, were carried out in full view of the public, they would be a hell of a lot more effective as a deterrent. Corporal punishment,as well, would need to be public, and highly visible to be a deterrent . I'd vote for bringing back the stocks, and placing them on brightly lit platforms at busy intersections.
 

oftheherd1

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Punishment, including incarceration, is only partly for the offender. It is also to deter those who are contemplating breaking law, and to protect society from those who in fact do break the law. As to flogging, no thanks. I would consider that cruel and unusual punishment, which is prohibited by the US Constitution. I want the constitution upheld for people's right to bear arms. I cannot then say let us break it in our punishment of law-breakers.

Whether or not it would be a deterant is another argument altogether. Your illustration that it would be preferable to a criminal over incarceration, is a good argument it wouldn't, and therefore would provide no protection to society.

Sorry, I can't support it.
 
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Big Don

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Punishment, including incarceration, is only partly for the offender. It is also to deter those who are contemplating breaking law, and to protect society from those who in fact do break the law. As to flogging, no thanks. I would consider that cruel and unusual punishment, which is prohibited by the US Constitution. I want the constitution upheld for people's right to bear arms. I cannot then say let us break it in our punishment of law-breakers.

Whether or not it would be a deterant is another argument altogether. Your illustration that it would be preferable to a criminal over incarceration, is a good argument it wouldn't, and therefore would provide no protection to society.

Sorry, I can't support it.
The definitions of cruel and unusual are pretty varied... I'd call forcing me to watch Glee or I love Lucy cruel, for instance, but, taking a smack or 5... not so much.
As for unusual, have you looked around the internet much? There is some really unusual things out there.
I'd support bringing back the stocks more than the lash, personally. There isn't enough shame in our culture anymore.
 

Touch Of Death

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Punishment, including incarceration, is only partly for the offender. It is also to deter those who are contemplating breaking law, and to protect society from those who in fact do break the law. As to flogging, no thanks. I would consider that cruel and unusual punishment, which is prohibited by the US Constitution. I want the constitution upheld for people's right to bear arms. I cannot then say let us break it in our punishment of law-breakers.

Whether or not it would be a deterant is another argument altogether. Your illustration that it would be preferable to a criminal over incarceration, is a good argument it wouldn't, and therefore would provide no protection to society.

Sorry, I can't support it.
As tempting as beating people sounds, I don't like it. LOL However, prison not only doesn't protect society, it it trains otherwise dumb people to be super criminals; so, you aren't exactly winning the argument either. :)
 

oftheherd1

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The definitions of cruel and unusual are pretty varied... I'd call forcing me to watch Glee or I love Lucy cruel, for instance, but, taking a smack or 5... not so much.
As for unusual, have you looked around the internet much? There is some really unusual things out there.
I'd support bringing back the stocks more than the lash, personally. There isn't enough shame in our culture anymore.

I'm not against corporal punishment. I spanked my kids and my grandkids. But I wouldn't use a cane on them. Spanking kids should not be done in anger, should be immediate to the offense or its discovery, normally doesn't even need to include much pain. It just needs to show consequences to a greater degree, and greater disappointment of the parent or teacher that other infractions.
 

oftheherd1

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As tempting as beating people sounds, I don't like it. LOL However, prison not only doesn't protect society, it it trains otherwise dumb people to be super criminals; so, you aren't exactly winning the argument either. :)

Makes one wonder if we should return to what I have heard was the original penitentiary system. Solitary confinement in individual cells so prisoners could think about their crimes and become more penitent.

That would prevent the prison educational system which as you said, does exist. Probably just as bad is the ruling of prisons by inmates, and accomodations prisoners learn to make.

But regardless, while in prison at least, they are not on the street preying on society.
 

K-man

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Why not just swap to Sharia law. Then you can chop of hands for stealing and bury people up to their necks and stone them for adultery. ;)

No, no matter how much it seems a reasonable idea at the time, I suspect flogging is a backward step.
:asian:
 
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Big Don

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Why not just swap to Sharia law. Then you can chop of hands for stealing and bury people up to their necks and stone them for adultery. ;)

No, no matter how much it seems a reasonable idea at the time, I suspect flogging is a backward step.
:asian:
How about we just go with the letter of the law here? Specifically, the 13th amendment:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Work, or don't eat, that is slavery isn't it? Make them, by god, work to earn their keep.
 
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