Should flogging replace prison time?

[Big Don]

Should flogging replace prison time?
One academic wants to empty America's prisons by resurrecting an old and controversial way of punishing convicts
The Week EXCERPT:
posted on June 28, 2011, at 4:15 PM

It was Elvis' fictionalized punishment in "Jailhouse Rock," but flogging could actually be a solution to our crowded prisons, says one academic. Not sure you want to do those five years in prison? How about 10 lashes, instead? That's the tradeoff a U.S. academic suggests in his subtly titled new book, In Defense of Flogging. Peter Moskos, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, argues that our prison system is not only overcrowded and violent, but that it is completely ineffective. "I can't think of another institution that has failed as mightily as the prison has," he writes. As an alternative, he says, the least dangerous convicts should be given a choice — jail time, or two lashes for every year of their sentence. Moskos predicts the prison population would see a massive decline, freeing up billions of dollars for more useful purposes. Others suggest government-sanctioned violence would do nothing to reduce crime, and might even increase criminals' violent tendencies. Is flogging really our best option?
END EXCERPT
This is an interesting idea. Two lashes per year? I don't know, I think that math might be seriously off, but, interesting nonetheless.

 

[granfire]

I don't know. Places like Singapour have caning....and a pretty low crime rate...
There seems to be a discouraging effect. Getting a public spanking is embarrassing (and painful I suppose)

 

[Big Don]

I don't know. Places like Singapour have caning....and a pretty low crime rate...
There seems to be a discouraging effect. Getting a public spanking is embarrassing (and painful I suppose)

Crying in front of people, when you're supposed to be the big, bad, gang banging graffiti artist or drug dealer, would tend to be somewhat humiliating...
There isn't a lot of shame in evidence these days, that is a shame.

 

[Big Don]

Places like Singapour

Home of the singing bartenders?

 

[Ken Morgan]

Violence doesn't change people's attitudes unfortunately.

Prison is about three things, rehabilitation, punishment and keeping criminals out of society for an extended period of time. The lash would only serve one of those three things.

Lashing never worked in the past, I doubt it will work today. Besides, you want to bet the scars on ones back become like a status symbol for some of the criminal element?

 

[MA-Caver]

What are we? In the Middle Ages? sheesh!

 

[Big Don]

Violence does, however, stop and punish behavior. The mere threat of violence discourages misbehavior, you know this(BTW, that is a general you as in ALL OF YOU), you're a martial artist.

 

[Twin Fist]

i couldnt disagree more

my mom beat my *** bloody, and guess what? i acted right after that.

I was a mouthy little 20 yr old brown belt, till i got my *** beaten bloody by an old fat BB, and guess what? i humbled up QUICK

violence has solved more problems than any other single thing in history.

it handled that whole Hitler thing pretty well....

Violence doesn't change people's attitudes unfortunately.

 

[MA-Caver]

i couldnt disagree more

my mom beat my *** bloody, and guess what? i acted right after that.

I was a mouthy little 20 yr old brown belt, till i got my *** beaten bloody by an old fat BB, and guess what? i humbled up QUICK

violence has solved more problems than any other single thing in history.

it handled that whole Hitler thing pretty well....

Perhaps but it's HOW violence is meted out that determines the right or wrong of it, IMO. Also WHY plays a heavy part in it as well.

 

[Big Don]

Not only would smacking malefactors around save money, we could offer a class on how to administer lashings, and raise money by charging for that, a lashing license and auction off the privileged of administering the lashing. Not to mention pay per view.
Personally, I'd love to bring back the stocks for non-violent crimes, money could be raised selling water balloons or something to passers by...

 

[granfire]

What are we? In the Middle Ages? sheesh!

The middle ages are a huge step forward for the basic cave man we still are....

 

[Tez3]

i couldnt disagree more

my mom beat my *** bloody, and guess what? i acted right after that.

I was a mouthy little 20 yr old brown belt, till i got my *** beaten bloody by an old fat BB, and guess what? i humbled up QUICK

violence has solved more problems than any other single thing in history.

it handled that whole Hitler thing pretty well....

And now so much is explained. Changes the whole Study debate for me.

 

[cdunn]

Violence doesn't change people's attitudes unfortunately.

Prison is about three things, rehabilitation, punishment and keeping criminals out of society for an extended period of time. The lash would only serve one of those three things.

Lashing never worked in the past, I doubt it will work today. Besides, you want to bet the scars on ones back become like a status symbol for some of the criminal element?

Prison doesn't serve rehabilitation, and we aren't serious about rehabilitating prisoners. We do, however, take our vengance very, very seriously here in 'murka. Lashing will do a great job of serving vengance.

 

[Razor]

I do not support any violent responses to crime, but it's an interesting point by the author of the study. Prison systems are very flawed, but I can't see this helping much. Seems like it might be getting off easy for some people; I'd rather take a couple of lashes than a year in prison.

Punishments like that don't stop crime though, as you can see from the past or from any country which still has such punishments.

 

[MJS]

Hmm....lets see...

Option 1) Commit a crime, go to jail, knowing that you get 3 hots, a cot, a roof over your head, tv, rec time, and pretty much anything else you could have, were you on the outside.

or

Option 2) Commit a B&E= 20 lashes. Do it a 2nd time, 20 lashes and 3 fingers chopped off. Rape someone: your get them chopped off.

Yeah, I think the realization that progressive discipline would have an effect. Problem is, any time someone commits a crime, be it minor or major, the BHC (Bleeding Hearts Club) starts protesting, saying rights are violated, blah blah blah. Make prison a horrible place, well maybe not horrible, where you have sadistic guards, but more like Sheriff Joes place, and I'll bet that'll humble ya. Something tells me Joes place isn't Club Med.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

All else aside, I've never had prison food, but I have had jail food before. Stuff tastes nasty, and rightly so. I have to wonder if those calling prison Club Med have ever even been in a jail, let alone prison.

 

[Cyriacus]

Flogging? No.
Now, im going to cover myself here, and kindly ask you all to not think im some kind of Sociopath.
I love you all! Huggles! See how sane i am? Good. Moving on.

I think the Medieval Prison System was good. People were genuinely scared to see the inside of a Dungeon, because the Soldiers stationed to run then could do whatever they damn well pleased, and made every day miserable for their Captives.

Perhaps if the Prison System was genuinely harsh, less people would put themselves in that position.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Flogging? No.
Now, im going to cover myself here, and kindly ask you all to not think im some kind of Sociopath.
I love you all! Huggles! See how sane i am? Good. Moving on.

I think the Medieval Prison System was good. People were genuinely scared to see the inside of a Dungeon, because the Soldiers stationed to run then could do whatever they damn well pleased, and made every day miserable for their Captives.

Perhaps if the Prison System was genuinely harsh, less people would put themselves in that position.

Here's the thing about the whole deterrance argument, though. It assumes that most people who commit crimes sit down to contemplate and weigh and measure pros and cons before committing the crime. I don't believe that's the case, although granted I haven't really done much research on the effectiveness of punishment severity as a deterrant. Then again, who here has?

Long story short, you could throw due process out the window, chop off the hand of every first-time robbery offender, and then throw their mangled bodies to a den of starving wolves, and you'd still have thieves simply because considering the consequences usually happens AFTER the fact.

 

[Cyriacus]

Here's the thing about the whole deterrance argument, though. It assumes that most people who commit crimes sit down to contemplate and weigh and measure pros and cons before committing the crime. I don't believe that's the case, although granted I haven't really done much research on the effectiveness of punishment severity as a deterrant. Then again, who here has?

Long story short, you could throw due process out the window, chop off the hand of every first-time robbery offender, and then throw their mangled bodies to a den of starving wolves, and you'd still have thieves simply because considering the consequences usually happens AFTER the fact.

Of course not all criminals do. The majority dont. But the average thief might think twice before they mug that guy on the corner.

EDIT: Elaboration is likely in order.
The idea is, to have deterrance, but not as the main theme. If you think about it, deterance is the attempt of the current prison system, besides containment. Albeit it just gives villainy a place to either breed or be choked in. A system which would cause most people to be deterred would work better for more small time offences, since even one or two days locked in a pitch black empty stone room, with some guy screaming at you to shut up and lick up your gruel or starve, and spending the night freezing in a corner, and getting a few Truncheon blows to the thighs if you resist moving around might prove more effective than confining someone to a comfy room for a set time.

 

[Big Don]

Here's the thing about the whole deterrance argument, though. It assumes that most people who commit crimes sit down to contemplate and weigh and measure pros and cons before committing the crime. I don't believe that's the case, although granted I haven't really done much research on the effectiveness of punishment severity as a deterrant. Then again, who here has?
.

While I see what you are saying. You don't drive around at 100mph daily do you? Of course not. Why? Because you don't want the hassles that come with being pulled over and ticketed, that, my friend, is deterrence.