Since they don't have a folder devoted specifically to Brazilian martial arts and so I started this thread. Everybody knows about BJJ but there are other Brazilian martial arts such as Capoeira which is perhaps not as famous as BJJ but is still very fascinating and has quite the history, how it was created by slaves and disguised as a dance so their masters wouldn't know they were training in a fighting art.
Brazilian Martial Arts
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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Capoeira is perhaps the most fully native Brazilian martial art.
BJJ is a Brazilian spin on a Japanese art. They put a new spin and focus on it, but the fundamental techniques are still recognizably judo.
Luta Livre is like BJJ, but they threw catch wrestling and Muay Thai into the mix.
Capoeira may have roots in some African martial art(s), but the knowledge of that lineage has been lost. All we know for certain is that it was developed into its current unique form in Brazil, by slaves and free blacks.
It was suppressed by the authorities for some time, but in the early days of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, capoeiristas were sometimes seen as upholding national pride in challenges against the "foreign" art that the Gracies were promoting.
BJJ is a Brazilian spin on a Japanese art. They put a new spin and focus on it, but the fundamental techniques are still recognizably judo.
Luta Livre is like BJJ, but they threw catch wrestling and Muay Thai into the mix.
Capoeira may have roots in some African martial art(s), but the knowledge of that lineage has been lost. All we know for certain is that it was developed into its current unique form in Brazil, by slaves and free blacks.
It was suppressed by the authorities for some time, but in the early days of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, capoeiristas were sometimes seen as upholding national pride in challenges against the "foreign" art that the Gracies were promoting.
I can't imagine capoeirista's fighting BJJ guys...
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The first formal challenge matches of Capoeira vs Gracie Jiu-Jitsu took place in 1931, although the first match of a capoeirista vs a Japanese jujutsu/judo fighter happened some years previously in 1909.
LibbyW
Orange Belt
There is a type of wrestling called Huka Huka.
I saw a sort of competition when on holiday there, it was very impressive stuff...though nothing I could post pics or vids about as it is usually done nude or nearly nude.
When I saw the men performing I was like
but then when the girls started wrestling around I was like 
.
The girls were a lot more grabby.
L
I saw a sort of competition when on holiday there, it was very impressive stuff...though nothing I could post pics or vids about as it is usually done nude or nearly nude.
When I saw the men performing I was like
but then when the girls started wrestling around I was like .The girls were a lot more grabby.
L
A cop in my department was a Capo guy, so we used to play all the time. While not my cup of tea, he had really strong legs, I imagine from all the low stances. He was very difficult to punch, it was funny. Fortunately he couldn't grapple, other than what I taught him, so I always wrapped him up. I thought that was funny, too. Beating a Brazilian stylist with Bjj.
drop bear
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Thanks for the video's guys.
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When you pit one style against another as to which style wins depends on the rules used. Whatever style the rules favor is the style that wins. That's why the Gracies were winning so much, they would only fight by rules that favor their style.
It also didnt help in the early days of the UFC that people didn't really know what BJJ was, it had existed but wasnt overly popular until the Gracies used in then. Now that people know what it is and are a little more familiar with it, we're seeing Wrestlers in the UFC who can can grapple with the BJJ guys, and Strikers who now how to stop techs from getting sunk in.
Familiarity can make a huge difference.
drop bear
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Vale tudo originally did not have a lot of rules.
Well, they always had a "no weapons" rule, which puts the kenjutsu practitioners at a serious disadvantage.
Seriously, though, the earliest style vs style challenge matches used to have a lot of negotiations over rules. (Also some disputes over interpretations of those rules during and after the matches.) In the beginning, the Gracies (and the Japanese judo/jujutsu practitioners who preceded them) usually tried to insist on the fighters wearing a gi. The classic no-gi vale tudo matches of the sort elder999 posted above came later.
drop bear
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fair point.Well, they always had a "no weapons" rule, which puts the kenjutsu practitioners at a serious disadvantage.
Seriously, though, the earliest style vs style challenge matches used to have a lot of negotiations over rules. (Also some disputes over interpretations of those rules during and after the matches.) In the beginning, the Gracies (and the Japanese judo/jujutsu practitioners who preceded them) usually tried to insist on the fighters wearing a gi. The classic no-gi vale tudo matches of the sort elder999 posted above came later.
And having gone through a kudo stage. The gi makes a big difference. Especially favouring the clincher.
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From what I remember by then the Gracies had already established quite a name for themselves although back then their art was called Gracie Jiu Jitsu not Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I do know of some places that still do call it GJJ. Changing the name I believe had something to do with the Gracies trademarking their name and although the trademark is apparently expired the BJJ name stuck.
But in the early days of the UFC people were starting to realize the real value of mat work and ground fighting. As for wrestlers, this might be changing but apparently wrestlers were losing to the Gracies simply for the reason that wrestlers are trained to win by pinning their opponent while the Gracies win by using submission holds. So a wrestler would have no problem pinning a Gracie but a Gracie could easily get a wrestler in a submission hold.
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- #16
There's always rules of some sort.
Right, but people werent seeing it on the same scale as they did after UFC 1 and as they do now. it was more like, "I heard there was a man named gracie whos beating folks 2 times is his size with some kind of Jiu Jitsu" but they werent as familiar with the moves such as Kimuras, and Armbars as wrestlers and other strikers are now. Now wrestlers and strikers alike now what to look for in order to prevent submissions, and while BJJ is common, we dont have fighters submitting people left and right like the gracies did before other fighters really knew what exactly it was, and what to look out for. This familiarity with BJJ is what allows some fighters to get in the cage without any real formal BJJ training, because now they now what to watch for and how to stop it. Whereas, in the early days of UFC many fighters didnt.
Hanzou
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I hear this constantly, and every time I hear it, I just have to laugh. There were no rules that overly favored the Gracies in UFC, just like there are no rules that overly favor bjj and grappling in MMA now.
smiller2144
Yellow Belt
Exactly, all of their challenge fights were had practically no rules except for biting and head butting usually or really dirty moves.
Look at Royce Gracie, possibly the best UFC fighter of all time, beat kickboxers, boxers, wrestlers and karate practitioners only using BJJ.
Hes hardly the best of all time. His record was 20 and 3. Anderson Silva's is 40 and 6. Was he influential in making mat work far more popular and well known, thus bringing it to the attention of strikers in and out of the UFC? Yes. Was he the best UFC fighter? Far from it.
He also fought during a time where BJJ wasn't nearly as well known or popular. Now, wrestlers and strikers aren't getting submitted as easily as they did back then because they're familiar with BJJ, even if they've had no formal training in BJJ.
If royce fought today, theres no doubt he would be considered one of the best Grapplers in the UFC. But he would submit people nearly as easily as he did back then.
