Black Belt joining as White Belt

[SgtMagic]

I became a black belt in combat Jujitsu in 1995. I spent a few years helping the white belt and lower rank. Then my many jobs kept me away from the dojo and 11 years ago I moved to Florida (small town in Florida) The first thing I did when I arrive to Florida is look for a jujitsu ryu, there were none to be found.
A few months ago I found out that the next town about 20 minutes away has a jujitsu school. It is traditional jujitsu not BJJ. The Sensei there told me he would like me to come to the mat as a white belt.

Now I don't mind, just hoping I can show them I am a fast learner to get to their advice classes and earn their respect.




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[elder999]

I became a black belt in combat Jujitsu in 1995. I spent a few years helping the white belt and lower rank. Then my many jobs kept me away from the dojo and 11 years ago I moved to Florida (small town in Florida) The first thing I did when I arrive to Florida is look for a jujitsu ryu, there were none to be found.
A few months ago I found out that the next town about 20 minutes away has a jujitsu school. It is traditional jujitsu not BJJ. The Sensei there told me he would like me to come to the mat as a white belt.

Now I don't mind, just hoping I can show them I am a fast learner to get to their advice classes and earn their respect.




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Where in Florida are you?

Was it a Miyama ryu dojo that you earned your black belt in, or is it a Miyama ryu dojo that you're joining?

 

[SgtMagic]

Yes black belt In Miyama Ryu and no not a Miyama Ryu I am joining. But it is traditional jujitsu. So I will wear their white belt to learn their system.


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[elder999]

Yes black belt In Miyama Ryu and no not a Miyama Ryu I am joining. But it is traditional jujitsu. So I will wear their white belt to learn their system.


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There's Miyama ryu in Miami and Boca Raton...where in Florida are you?

 

[SgtMagic]

The Fort Myers area, west coast of Florida. Boca Raton and Miami is 3 hours away from my area.

 

[marques]

What do you think about doing 'equivalences'? I am not sure it is the best word, but I mean to evaluate the level of a person and 'give' him/her that level.

For example in that case, with an 'equivalence' @SgtMagic could start with a higher than a white belt, even if his Black Belt is old, long time without training and from a slightly different style.

The advantage is the belt represent a level for all students and not hours training under the same master. Another thing is a pure white belt (or higher...) will feel quite bad comparing himself with other 'fake' white belt (beyond being a white belt alone ).

 

[Buka]

Welcome to MartialTalk, SgtMagic.

One way to look at your situation - you joined the new school because you love Martial training. And now you're training again. What a great thing.

And while on the dojo floor training, how many of us actually look down at our belt? Or even think about it?

Have a ball bro. I'm glad you're training again.

 

[SgtMagic]

Marques, yes that would sound right to evaluate my level. I guess this issue is new to them. In my system my Shinan would allow a black belt in Judo, TKD or other styles of martial art to start as a brown belt in Miyama Ryu.


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[jks9199]

Different styles handle things their own way. Different instructors within styles handle things as they see fit, as well. Depending on the student, if a student with a black belt in another style joined my class, we might advance them to green belt. They might move faster through the system, or they might night. It would depend on how quickly and how well they learned our principles.

You have a black belt in one form of jujitsu, but haven't trained in some time. Meanwhile, you're entering a new school, with their own system. You haven't mentioned which -- but it is NOT Miyama Ryu. There are many styles of jujitsu -- and some are quite different from each other. Without implying anything about it's quality -- Miyama Ryu is really a modern, eclectic style, while you say that your joining a more traditional school. Why should your previous rank automatically transfer? Shoot, I was just thinking the other day how much I'd love to start training as a simply beginning student again... Too bad Florida is so far way... (I know, there are bound to be places near me to start over at...)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I became a black belt in combat Jujitsu in 1995. I spent a few years helping the white belt and lower rank. Then my many jobs kept me away from the dojo and 11 years ago I moved to Florida (small town in Florida) The first thing I did when I arrive to Florida is look for a jujitsu ryu, there were none to be found.
A few months ago I found out that the next town about 20 minutes away has a jujitsu school. It is traditional jujitsu not BJJ. The Sensei there told me he would like me to come to the mat as a white belt.

Now I don't mind, just hoping I can show them I am a fast learner to get to their advice classes and earn their respect.




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Starting again at white is a humbling and valuable experience. I haven't had a good opportunity to train long-term at a new thing since I got my black, but I've had the chance to train for periods of time with instructors as a white belt again. Don't bother showing you're a fast learner - that's actually the attitude I started my first "post-graduate" training with, and it got a lot easier once I decided to just show how well I could follow the instructions of an exercise. I determined to demonstrate that I was a good student, whether I was the fastest learner or not. I learned faster after that change.

I enjoyed being a white belt enough that I regularly offer to wear either rank when I visit a school. Some instructors want to introduce me as someone folks can learn from or experiment with, while others want to let me just be a learner, and still other sneaky bastards want to sneak me in on their students.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What do you think about doing 'equivalences'? I am not sure it is the best word, but I mean to evaluate the level of a person and 'give' him/her that level.

For example in that case, with an 'equivalence' @SgtMagic could start with a higher than a white belt, even if his Black Belt is old, long time without training and from a slightly different style.

The advantage is the belt represent a level for all students and not hours training under the same master. Another thing is a pure white belt (or higher...) will feel quite bad comparing himself with other 'fake' white belt (beyond being a white belt alone ).

If I know them as a person and am personally familiar with their prior training, I'll give them a few weeks to get used to the school, then test them to whatever belt I think they could handle (including knowing the curriculum). For me, this would only apply to students coming out of about 4 dojos, where I know the instructors and am familar with how they teach mainline NGA. I would be able to help them convert their techniques to our usage fairly quickly, so could promote them quickly to yellow or orange (the first two student ranks, normally about 1 year and 2-3 years in).

 

[Danny T]

Welcome to MartialTalk, SgtMagic.
Hop over to the Meet & Greet and introduce yourself to everyone.

What is more important; the color of your belt & your attitude toward it or the training & your attitude toward it?
Rank only means something to the group who set the standards for that group, you are with a different group so different standards, different requirements. You will probably move up quickly.
I recommend forgetting about belt color: just train, have fun, enjoy your training partners, and enjoy yourself. Maintain an attitude of being forever a student, keep your training and perspective of each training session as a fresh new learning experience. Live and enjoy the new leg of your journey.

 

[marques]

@gpseymour our virtual colleague told everything.

Different styles handle things their own way.

I would just promote that person coming from somewhere else to his actual level (or 1 level below, in doubt) after a few weeks of observation/evaluation. If I had a strict program, I would say something like, look "Jab is a requisite for our yellow below and you don't know it. Except that, you are at the level of our blue belts, so let's 'fix it' (jabs..) before promote you to blue belt. So a belt reflects as well as possible a level (of knowledge/skill).

On the other hand, I like the simplicity of 'no belts'.

But it is as simple as that:

Different styles [and individuals] handle things their own way.

 

[SgtMagic]

Buka thank you for the welcome. You said exactly what I feel. I am so happy a new Jujitsu school is now near me and I look forward to hitting the mat.

Jks9199, I should not mention the school because I don't want them to think I'm saying something wrong about them or that their standards are wrong, not trying to say that.

Thanks for the welcome Danny T, will post in the Meet & Greet shortly.

I understand what you are saying regarding the rank.
I look forward to getting back into Jujitsu.

Thank you gpseymout I respectfully understand your input.





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[Tames D]

Welcome to MT SgtMagic. I would just strap on the white belt and be the most Bad *** white belt they've ever seen.

 

[drop bear]

We had an old instructor drop in. Who is a Brazilian Top Team black belt.

He did classes under one of our instructors who is not even ranked.

His choice.

 

[jks9199]

Here's the problem with trying to do "equivalency." Different arts have different underlying principles. You may well be able to throw a jab -- but you won't do it with the body mechanics and underlying principles that make OUR jab work in OUR system. I can't test that equivalency unless the systems are very comparable. Go across tae kwon do associations, and you can probably do that. But go from a striking based system to BJJ or judo? Nope, can't do an "equivalency" there. Karate to bagua? Probably can't do a meaningful comparison.

Looking specifically at jujitsu... There are many systems. Some of them, if you put them side by side, you'd not see a difference. Others? You'd wonder why they're called the same thing. And I'm talking Japanese, traditional systems there.

I'm not trying to suggest that any way is better. Or criticize any one school. I'm not suggesting the OP isn't deserving of a higher rank.. How would I know? He's several states away from me, and I doubt we've ever met. I do think it's sometimes easy for us, as black belts (or blue belts or whatever) sometimes have some sneaky ego tied into the knot with our belt. Not undeservedly; we worked hard to earn it. But it can be hard to go back to that beginner's mind...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here's the problem with trying to do "equivalency." Different arts have different underlying principles. You may well be able to throw a jab -- but you won't do it with the body mechanics and underlying principles that make OUR jab work in OUR system. I can't test that equivalency unless the systems are very comparable. Go across tae kwon do associations, and you can probably do that. But go from a striking based system to BJJ or judo? Nope, can't do an "equivalency" there. Karate to bagua? Probably can't do a meaningful comparison.

Looking specifically at jujitsu... There are many systems. Some of them, if you put them side by side, you'd not see a difference. Others? You'd wonder why they're called the same thing. And I'm talking Japanese, traditional systems there.

I'm not trying to suggest that any way is better. Or criticize any one school. I'm not suggesting the OP isn't deserving of a higher rank.. How would I know? He's several states away from me, and I doubt we've ever met. I do think it's sometimes easy for us, as black belts (or blue belts or whatever) sometimes have some sneaky ego tied into the knot with our belt. Not undeservedly; we worked hard to earn it. But it can be hard to go back to that beginner's mind...

Even if the "old art" is the primary source of the "new art", there can be such significant differences as to make the "old" rank meaningless. If someone with deep experience in Daito-ryu came to my classes, there would be no rank they could test to - they'd have to start at white, regardless of their rank in Daito-ryu. The principles are similar, but the curriculum is vastly different.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's a different system, and you've been out for a lot of years. Two good reasons to start over as a white belt.
I've said many times that I'd rather wear a white belt and have people wonder why, than wear a black belt and have people wonder why.

 

[marques]

Here's the problem with trying to do "equivalency." Different arts have different underlying principles. (...) Not undeservedly; we worked hard to earn it. But it can be hard to go back to that beginner's mind...

I understand it all. Just to clarify that when I say "equivalency" I am thinking on similar styles. But, in doubt, I also prefer white than black, which was the OP case.

My issue, particularly, is being re-starting again and again in a new city (so new club) I may not be allowed to do some 'fun' things (as sparring...). That is my issue. The first Black Belt was important. Then I discovered that a rock also can be a Black Belt... so now I just want the 'fun'* side.

*fun to be understood with moderation. Martial Arts are a serious thing.