Black Belt joining as White Belt

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,047
Reaction score
9,872
Location
Hendersonville, NC
It's a different system, and you've been out for a lot of years. Two good reasons to start over as a white belt.
I've said many times that I'd rather wear a white belt and have people wonder why, than wear a black belt and have people wonder why.
Yes. This ^^^^.
 

pgsmith

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
483
Location
Texas
Now I don't mind, just hoping I can show them I am a fast learner to get to their advice classes and earn their respect.

Welcome to the madhouse!
Here is my two cent's worth ... just go and train. Let your instructor know that you have prior experience, but try and ignore it as much as possible. Don't try and "show" them anything, don't think to yourself (or worse say it out loud) "that's not how I learned it", try not to think "I could do that better". Just listen and try to do what you're taught to the best of your abilities.

I've learned three different Japanese sword arts, and started each one as a rank beginner. Your prior experience will make you easier to teach (for which your instructor will be grateful!) but try and ignore it unless you are specifically asked if your prior training did something different.

Good luck, and have fun!
 
OP
SgtMagic

SgtMagic

White Belt
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
17
Reaction score
5
Welcome to the madhouse!
Here is my two cent's worth ... just go and train. Let your instructor know that you have prior experience, but try and ignore it as much as possible. Don't try and "show" them anything, don't think to yourself (or worse say it out loud) "that's not how I learned it", try not to think "I could do that better". Just listen and try to do what you're taught to the best of your abilities.

I've learned three different Japanese sword arts, and started each one as a rank beginner. Your prior experience will make you easier to teach (for which your instructor will be grateful!) but try and ignore it unless you are specifically asked if your prior training did something different.

Good luck, and have fun!

Hi pgsmith,

That is exactly what I am going to do. Learn their ways. Only one Sensei knows that I am a black belt. when I get on the mat I will not let the other white belt know my background.

I do understand that my current rank is part of my mindset and the love I have for Combat Jujitsu. I look forward to start my Journey with them.

Thanks for your comments PgSmith
 

marques

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
382
Location
Essex, UK
When I start thinking "I could do that better" it is the moment to move away...
 

Tony Dismukes

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
7,103
Reaction score
6,696
Location
Lexington, KY
I enjoy starting a new art as a white belt. It takes the pressure off. If I do something well because of my prior training, then I look really good for a white belt. If I do something all wrong, it's only to be expected.
 

Justin Chang

Orange Belt
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
81
Reaction score
32
Location
Rochester, NY
I belonged to a school in the past where if you were a black belt from another style or you were a junior black belt advancing to the adult classes they would give you a red belt (which was not a standard color in the art) until they could evaluate where you belonged in their ranking system.

I personally prefer no belts because I believe everyone has something they can offer and we can learn from and it helps people to leave their ego at the door which isn't always easy to do in Martial Arts.
 

TSDTexan

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
1,881
Reaction score
539
Here's a joke:

How many karateka (insert your own art here) does it take to change a light bulb?

100.

1 to do it, and 99 to complain: "That's not how I was shown how to do it."

Being a good white belt is more important in the sense that you have a higher level of humility due to a lack of subject knowledge.

Empty your cup, accept a posture of humility and you will pursue excellence.

I have done Korean Karate for a good long minute. I even ran a few schools in my art.

Recently, I actually put on a white belt and started in okinawan karate. I know a great deal about the forms I am doing.

However, like facets on a diamond, I am gaining new dimensions in understanding
In what I already knew.

I could puff up with what I already know (or think I know) or I can empty myself of myself.

I am presented with strings of new data (principles, methods, techniques, tactics, biomechanics etc), and I could be missing a lot of what's before my eyes in the Now, if I am in class and regurgitating what I learned in the past.

Become a blank slate. And after you get back to about the same ranking, learn how to find a state of harmony & Syn-thesis.
(I don't mean like fake)

A Simple Definition of synthesis by Merriam-Webster
  • : something that is made by combining different things (such as ideas, styles, etc.)
 

marques

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
382
Location
Essex, UK
Recently, I actually put on a white belt and started in okinawan karate. I know a great deal about the forms I am doing.

However, like facets on a diamond, I am gaining new dimensions in understanding
In what I already knew.
So you gain understanding, and for sure you like learning and training for starting a new style from 'white'. But as fighter (if it matters to you) do you feel you are improving (or will improve?) Will it not just create conflictual options? :)

I trained a long time under the same organization, and I heard often 'Karate is this, Judo is that'. And then I tried a few thing and I could confirm, or not, the clich矇s. And it is fun. But as a fighter, besides knowing better the 'opponent', I don't see much improvement. I will keep using what I master and everything else will take 10 years to have a major relevance... so I try just to continue from (or keep) what I have.

What is your fundamental motivation for re-starting? :)
 

oaktree

Master of Arts
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
264
Location
Under an Oaktree
When you say traditional jujutsu what ryuha is it? There really isn't to many traditional koryu jujutsu schools in Florida, I am from Florida(Miami) so I would be interested to know what classic Japanese jujutsu you are going to. You can pm me if you need to be.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,047
Reaction score
9,872
Location
Hendersonville, NC
When you say traditional jujutsu what ryuha is it? There really isn't to many traditional koryu jujutsu schools in Florida, I am from Florida(Miami) so I would be interested to know what classic Japanese jujutsu you are going to. You can pm me if you need to be.
Traditional doesn't always mean koryu, though it might.
 

msmitht

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
836
Reaction score
66
Location
san diego
Go and adhere to the new schools policy. After a while they will either see your skills as a blessing or a hindrance. If their techniques vary then a good teacher will make adjustments in how you apply/move/ off balance/fall/etc.
No matter what it will be a new experience
 

TSDTexan

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
1,881
Reaction score
539
So you gain understanding, and for sure you like learning and training for starting a new style from 'white'. But as fighter (if it matters to you) do you feel you are improving (or will improve?) Will it not just create conflictual options? :)

I trained a long time under the same organization, and I heard often 'Karate is this, Judo is that'. And then I tried a few thing and I could confirm, or not, the clich矇s. And it is fun. But as a fighter, besides knowing better the 'opponent', I don't see much improvement. I will keep using what I master and everything else will take 10 years to have a major relevance... so I try just to continue from (or keep) what I have.

What is your fundamental motivation for re-starting? :)


Deeper perspective, additional material, different bunkai, additional power generation, also Okinawas "Te" seizing, throwing, sweeping. Alternate ranging, and stance heights from Japanese Shotokan and Korean TSD.

A lot of the same and a lot of different things.

No, not really conflictual. Just new tools in the tool box, and new uses for the existing ones.

Part of it, is learning how to retain all the muscle memory, while also building new neuromuscular paths and then expressing your will.

Think of it like adding more colors to choose on your pallet.

Yes, it can definitely help you as a fighter, as long as you can actually drill down and acquire the some of skill sets presented
 

marques

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
382
Location
Essex, UK
Adding new tools I find quite easy. A drill may be enough. But the toolbox does not change overnight (no room/organization for everything). Finally, all my 'concerns' are just a matter of (training) time. :)
 

Jenna

Senior Master
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,470
Reaction score
713
Location
Cluj
I became a black belt in combat Jujitsu in 1995. I spent a few years helping the white belt and lower rank. Then my many jobs kept me away from the dojo and 11 years ago I moved to Florida (small town in Florida) The first thing I did when I arrive to Florida is look for a jujitsu ryu, there were none to be found.
A few months ago I found out that the next town about 20 minutes away has a jujitsu school. It is traditional jujitsu not BJJ. The Sensei there told me he would like me to come to the mat as a white belt.

Now I don't mind, just hoping I can show them I am a fast learner to get to their advice classes and earn their respect.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In your JJ do you spar? If so, which rank in your new school will you spar as? As a black downgraded to white belt, you will be too advanced to spar with other 'actual' white belt no?? x
 

pgsmith

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
483
Location
Texas
In your JJ do you spar? If so, which rank in your new school will you spar as? As a black downgraded to white belt, you will be too advanced to spar with other 'actual' white belt no?? x

Hey Jenna,
Not trying to put words in the mouth of the OP, but in my limited sparring experience, it is much easier for a less experienced practitioner to spar with someone of more experience than vice versa. White belts tend to not know how to moderate their techniques when sparring, so you have to be very much on guard against a less experienced sparring partner. It is very much the same in two person kumitachi in the sword arts that I practice.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,047
Reaction score
9,872
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Hey Jenna,
Not trying to put words in the mouth of the OP, but in my limited sparring experience, it is much easier for a less experienced practitioner to spar with someone of more experience than vice versa. White belts tend to not know how to moderate their techniques when sparring, so you have to be very much on guard against a less experienced sparring partner. It is very much the same in two person kumitachi in the sword arts that I practice.
We often say the two most dangerous people are the white belt (no control) and the brown belt (trying to prove they're ready for black).
 

Jenna

Senior Master
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,470
Reaction score
713
Location
Cluj
Hey Jenna,
Not trying to put words in the mouth of the OP, but in my limited sparring experience, it is much easier for a less experienced practitioner to spar with someone of more experience than vice versa. White belts tend to not know how to moderate their techniques when sparring, so you have to be very much on guard against a less experienced sparring partner. It is very much the same in two person kumitachi in the sword arts that I practice.
Ah yes of course that make perfect sense thank you Paul :) and but then so he is been asked to wear white though he is really higher level then who should he spar with such that it is to benefit of each partner?? Is confusing for my brain haha.. :D
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
22,657
Reaction score
7,368
Ah yes of course that make perfect sense thank you Paul :) and but then so he is been asked to wear white though he is really higher level then who should he spar with such that it is to benefit of each partner?? Is confusing for my brain haha.. :D

Everybody should spar everybody in an equal and honest manner.
 

JR 137

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
5,162
Reaction score
3,223
Location
In the dojo
I honestly wonder about the whole "sparring against brand new students is dangerous" mentality.

If it's dangerous for the beginner, then isn't that a problem with the more experienced student controlling him/herself? The more advanced student should be looking out for the beginner and not turning him/her into a punching bag.

If it's dangerous for the more advanced student, what have they learned? To only defend against experienced dojo fighters? Let's be serious here, if a brand new student with zero previous training hurts an experienced student, what sort of training is going on? What do you think someone with zero training is going to do to them "on the street?"

Accidents happen, but beyond that, I'm just dumbfounded.
 

marques

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
382
Location
Essex, UK
@JR 137 good point. I will give an example of that (or two).

I trained long time under the training rules of "vision" and low speed. Then beginners went fast and I was just seeing. :) When I was the beginner in a Judo school, I was the 'most dangerous there'. Then I discovered that I was doing plenty of not allowed techniques (ground game) because just a very where allowed, in fact.

Beginners don't follow training rules (and may not be so beginners - just unknown skill level).

But from a (truly?) martial perspective there is no excuse. The experienced is experienced AND knows will be attacked. The clothes are the ideal... often is only one and attacking from the front side at a distance... often known (kind of) attack... Very much simplified, already.

But you know, for safety purposes (or other) one put too many rules and then doesn't know what to do outside that conditions...
 

Latest Discussions

Top