Biu Tze- Snake hand

futsaowingchun

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A few movements from the opening section of the bil Tze form. The first movement is to release a wrist grab followed by a finger strike to the throat. An alternative would be to use kum Na on the opponents wrist and break it. Instead I choose a simple release. 

 
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dlcox

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I appreciate the application just not a fan of the finger strike, personally I would use the edge of my hand. Thank you for sharing.
 

KPM

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Nice! That is essentially the application for the Lan Kiu set from Pin Sun. Its all about using Biu Gee to bridge past an obstruction...whether you strike with the fingertips or edge of the hand is irrelevant.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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In systems such as long fist (such as pierce palm) and Taiji (such as "snake extend tone"), you use palm

- "down" finger strike to attack eyes.
- "up" finger strikes to attack throat.

It makes sense when your opponent tucks his chin, your palm up fingers strike will have better chance to get in under his chin.
 

ST1Doppelganger

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In systems such as long fist (such as pierce palm) and Taiji (such as "snake extend tone"), you use palm

- "down" finger strike to attack eyes.
- "up" finger strikes to attack throat.

It makes sense when your opponent tucks his chin, your palm up fingers strike will have better chance to get in under his chin.

My favorite way to modify a spear hand is to drill it at the eyes ending up with a thumb down position.

The reason why I like this modification is in reality hitting eyes on a moving target is pretty difficult but the drilling technique allows your hand to seek the target a bit easier because if you hit the eye brow, cheek bone or nose the drill guides your fingers to the eye.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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hitting eyes ...
When talking about eyes attacking, I like to swing my fingers "across" my opponent's eyes. This way, I have 5 x 2 = 10 chances that any of my finger may hit on either of my opponent's eyes. I found out this technique by accident. One time when I sparred with my opponent, my sparring glove string got loose. When I swung a hook, my hook punch missed my opponent's head, but my loose glove string hit on my opponent's eyes. We had to stop that sparring. Since then, I knew this kind move is effective.

Which style does this kind of fingers swing may come from? IMO, that's not important. I don't like to start from a certain style and see what solution that I can use from that system to solve a certain problem. I prefer to start from the problem and then find the best solution. If the best solution comes from my style, that's great. If it's not, that's fine too. I don't want to be loyalty to any style,

What's your opinion on this kind of "no style limitation" approach?
 
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dlcox

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When talking about eyes attacking, I like to swing my fingers "across" my opponent's eyes. This way, I have 5 x 2 = 10 chances that any of my finger may hit on either of my opponent's eyes. I found out this technique by accident. One time when I sparred with my opponent, my sparring glove string got loose. When I swung a hook, my hook punch missed my opponent's head, but my loose glove string hit on my opponent's eyes. We had to stop that sparring. Since then, I knew this kind move is effective.

Which style does this kind of fingers swing may come from? IMO, that's not important to me. I don't like to start from a certain style and see what solution that I can use. I prefer to start from the problem and then find the best solution. If the best solution comes from my style, that's great. If it's not, that's fine too.

What's your opinion on this kind of "no style limitation" approach?

Personally I'm a "whatever works irregardless of what it looks like or where it came from" kind of guy.

Not a big fan of striking with the fingers as presented in the video. IMO an easy way to jam/break a finger. I like the bridging use presented though. For a followup finger strike I would utilize:

1. Mo Wang Yao Shan - Devil King Waves a Fan (B!tch Slap)
2. Sha Shou - Killing Hand (Palm edge to throat/neck)
3. Gang Long Zhang - Hard Dragon Palm (Bent thumb to jugular notch or into eye orbit)
4. Ying Zhua Di - Eagle Claws the Ground (Throat grab)
5. Bai He Tou Chi - White Crane Throws Wings (Finger whip to eyes, nail side of hand)

For me these are safer on the hand and require less accuracy.
 
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ST1Doppelganger

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When talking about eyes attacking, I like to swing my fingers "across" my opponent's eyes. This way, I have 5 x 2 = 10 chances that any of my finger may hit on either of my opponent's eyes. I found out this technique by accident. One time when I sparred with my opponent, my sparring glove string got loose. When I swung a hook, my hook punch missed my opponent's head, but my loose glove string hit on my opponent's eyes. We had to stop that sparring. Since then, I knew this kind move is effective.

Which style does this kind of fingers swing may come from? IMO, that's not important. I don't like to start from a certain style and see what solution that I can use from that system to solve a certain problem. I prefer to start from the problem and then find the best solution. If the best solution comes from my style, that's great. If it's not, that's fine too. I don't want to be loyalty to any style,

What's your opinion on this kind of "no style limitation" approach?

A similar technique to what you described is what my CLF school referred to as crane wings.

We would also do it with an open handed palm starting from your pinky finger taking across the eyes till the thumbs ended up inline with the radius bone of the wrist.

The objective of this technique was to take your fingers across the eyes so it could guide the thumbs in to the eye socket and you could then use the eye sockets as a grip. You could even wrap your fingers around to the ears (usually done with both hands.

I use this mentality allot in what I call my modified Kung Fu Guard (LOL) from the ground or from the triangle choke and have taught it to my wife and all my nieces.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I like your "double switch hands" at 0.4 - 0.8. IMO, that's the highest level technique in the striking art. You have to be very good to understand and demo this technique. Great job!

Here is the definition of "double switch hand". It came from the Bagua system. I don't know if you use the same term or not.

- You attack with right hand.
- your opponent blocks with his left hand.
- You use left hand to re-block his left hand block, free your right hand, and continue attack with your right hand (so far you are using "single switch hand").
- Your opponent blocks with this right hand.
- When his right hand expose his center, You attack with your left hand.

 
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ST1Doppelganger

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I like your "double switch hands" at 0.4 - 0.8. IMO, that's the highest level technique in the striking art. You have to be very good to understand and demo this technique. Great job!

Here is the definition of "double switch hand". It came from the Bagua system. I don't know if you use the same term or not.

- You attack with right hand.
- your opponent blocks with his left hand.
- You use left hand to re-block his left hand block, free your right hand, and continue attack with your right hand (so far you are using "single switch hand").
- Your opponent blocks with this right hand.
- When his right hand expose his center, You attack with your left hand.


Yep bagua has it and there's a famous Chinese saying that im going to slaughter that goes something like this. Even the gods fear the three piercing palms.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Yep bagua has it and there's a famous Chinese saying that im going to slaughter that goes something like this. Even the gods fear the three piercing palms.

When I cross trained the Zimen system, All Zimen guys believed that finger strike can be faster than a punch or palm strike. The praying mantis master Brendan Lai also believed that finger strike speed is superior than the punching speed.

One day I sparred with a Karate guy. I used my fingers strike to hit on his chest many times, he looked at me as if "Why are you doing this for?" Another time I used my fingers strike to hit on my opponent's face many times, it scared him big time. From those 2 personal experience, I asked myself the following questions:

If my finger can hit on my opponent's

- eye, do I have enough courage to dig my finger into his eye ball?
- body, can I generate enough power to cause damage?

Since the answer for both questions are negative, I lose my interest in that training. Of course I can't do it doesn't mean others can't.
 

ST1Doppelganger

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When I cross trained the Zimen system, All Zimen guys believed that finger strike can be faster than a punch or palm strike. The praying mantis master Brendan Lai also believed that finger strike speed is superior than the punching speed.

One day I sparred with a Karate guy. I used my fingers strike to hit on his chest many times, he looked at me as if "Why are you doing this for?" Another time I used my fingers strike to hit on my opponent's face many times, it scared him big time. From those 2 personal experience, I asked myself the following questions:

If my finger can hit on my opponent's

- eye, do I have enough courage to dig my finger into his eye ball?
- body, can I generate enough power to cause damage?

Since the answer for both questions are negative, I lose my interest in that training. Of course I can't do it doesn't mean others can't.

Well the fingers are your longest range hand technique and thats why I like them they also are pretty hard to defend against once you get use to throwing spear hand variations.

They are a bit painful and hard to condition but I can poke my spear hand thru most cardboard boxes or cardboard slip sheets that are used for shipping purposes. (I've also jammed the living out of them)

I pretty much love spear hands and have been conditioning them for at least 8 years now.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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They are a bit painful and hard to condition .
In the

- Zimen system finger tip training, I just drop all my fingers on a piece of iron board while keep my elbow hang in the air.
- long fist system iron palm training, I use 5 fingers to hit on a bag filled with green bean.

Chinese believe that finger tip striking may hurt eyes. I have glaucoma on my left eye. Not sure it was caused by my fingers tip training or not.
 

KPM

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Which style does this kind of fingers swing may come from?
What's your opinion on this kind of "no style limitation" approach?

We do that in Pin Sun. Its also part of the Lan Kiu set. As far as "no style limitation", the sets in Pin Sun teach a concept of movement not necessarily a particular technique. Each typically has several variations that teach the same concept but use different techniques to kind of drive home this message. So you aren't limited to just a Wing Chun technique as long as it fits with the concept. I see no problem drawing on other things that are effective if you can make them work. But then don't call it Wing Chun. Call it your own personal method. I'm not referring specifically to you John. You aren't in the category. :)
 

mook jong man

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I think there is a slight difference in the way spear hands are used in other styles to the way Biu Jee is used in Wing Chun.

People seem to have an idea of Biu Jee , that it is like a Bruce Lee finger jab to the eyes , something done from a long distance.
In that case you could certainly miss the target due to the opponent moving their head , because you are further away and you don't have contact with the opponents arms to aid you in targeting.

But as I see it , when you are in trapping range the opponent should already be off balanced and concerned with just keeping his footing rather than any evasive head movement .
At that moment you are in very close range and should be able to target eyes or throat with much less chance of missing , mainly due to the reduced distance your strike has too travel.
Also you find it is much easier to hit a small target on the opponents head or body when you are already in contact with their arms , tactile feedback seems to enhance the ability to hit the target correctly rather than just using vision alone.

So I say Biu Jee strike to the eyes or throat from a distance , with no arm contact and the opponent is unencumbered is probably risky and you are likely to damage your fingers on skull or bone.

Biu Jee strike to the eyes or throat , from close range when the opponent is trapped and fighting for balance probably has a very good chance of finding the mark.
 

Argus

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I think there is a slight difference in the way spear hands are used in other styles to the way Biu Jee is used in Wing Chun.

People seem to have an idea of Biu Jee , that it is like a Bruce Lee finger jab to the eyes , something done from a long distance.
In that case you could certainly miss the target due to the opponent moving their head , because you are further away and you don't have contact with the opponents arms to aid you in targeting.

But as I see it , when you are in trapping range the opponent should already be off balanced and concerned with just keeping his footing rather than any evasive head movement .
At that moment you are in very close range and should be able to target eyes or throat with much less chance of missing , mainly due to the reduced distance your strike has too travel.
Also you find it is much easier to hit a small target on the opponents head or body when you are already in contact with their arms , tactile feedback seems to enhance the ability to hit the target correctly rather than just using vision alone.

So I say Biu Jee strike to the eyes or throat from a distance , with no arm contact and the opponent is unencumbered is probably risky and you are likely to damage your fingers on skull or bone.

Biu Jee strike to the eyes or throat , from close range when the opponent is trapped and fighting for balance probably has a very good chance of finding the mark.

I'd agree. I see biujee as more of a way to slip past the opponents defenses, or intercept a line.

I think the neck is a more practical target than the eyes, if striking with the finger tips. But I'm sure biujee can be very useful for disrupting an opponent. No-one likes fingers in their face - especially towards their eyes - and are bound to react to it. You needn't necessarily actually poke the eye for it to be advantageous.
 

Kwan Sau

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hitting eyes on a moving target is pretty difficult

Yeah, I "bil jee'd" this huge guy once when he was very close and 'flinched' on me. I didn't even think and my middle finger went straight to his eye. His head was stationary. Can imagine how difficult it would have been if he had been moving, bobbing, etc.
 
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