Belt Rankings - Keeping up with the times!

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
Competion Rank and System Rank perhaps should be two different animals all together.

That may be something to look at!!!

:asian:


(altho according to Jim Harrison it does )
P.s. who is Jim Harrison..... are you talking about the Robert Trias USKA person Shorie Ryu Stylist.....?

If so he was a fabulous Martial Artist for his style but not a voice in American Kenpo.

 

[C.E.Jackson]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



That may be something to look at!!!

:asian:


(altho according to Jim Harrison it does )
P.s. who is Jim Harrison..... are you talking about the Robert Trias USKA person Shorie Ryu Stylist.....?

If so he was a fabulous Martial Artist for his style but not a voice in American Kenpo.

Jim Harrison - Bushidokan Karate Founder
A prominate competitor in the 70's and the trainer of other prominate fighters. His system in based on Shorinryu I believe.

If interested in more information I will try to find some articals on him somewhere.

His ranking was strictly based in competition fighting skills. He did not promote on any other criteria that I'm aware of and was widely criticised for his system. Over the years he has however gained a great level of respect for his success and the success of his students. His
His system was based in Kansas City... so naturally being from there I have more knowledge of this man than some of you even though I never studied under him.

He was kind of a "big deal" in he 70's.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
Mr. "C", Do you present the Techniques in a different order than in Vol. 5???

Yes, I do the 16 Technique Curriculum that we were working on with Mr. Parker prior to his passing.
:asian:

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
I know you use the "16" system which awards rank in different places, but is the order re-arrainged as well???

Well, it appears you do not know much about the "16 Technique Curriculum" because it "DOES NOT" award rank in different place. The order of Rank is still..... W-Y-O-P-B-G-3rdBrn-2ndBrn-1stBrn-1st - 10th Black.
:asian:

Yes, the order is slightly re-arranged to conform more closely with the Web of Knowledge, but nothing is changed or dropped within the Base 154/5 Techniques as outlined in Book V.
:asian:

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
Rank system I am now using is basicly the "16" system except the "black" ranks are "Multi-Level Provisional" black ranks rather than "Mult-Level Full" Black Belts. I reserve a "Full Black Belt for completetion of the written material (Techniques and Forms1-6).
Multi-Levels of Black Belt for Continuing studies and time in rank.

Ok, so" YOU" have changed the Belt System to Award Ranks in a different place.
:asian:

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
I make NO CLAIM that this is ANY ONE's Idea but my own.

Ok great, does your instructor approve of the alteration?
:asian:

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
I use Ed Parker's Techniques in the order as I know them and Ed Parker's Forms. So I claim to be teaching Ed Parker's American Kenpo. Is this Improper???

You have a right to claim anything you wish to claim.
I never challenged that.:rofl:


:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
Jim Harrison - Bushidokan Karate Founder
A prominate competitor in the 70's and the trainer of other prominate fighters. His system in based on Shorinryu I believe.He was kind of a "big deal" in he 70's.

LOL, I have known of Jim Harrison for thirty years. Yes he was a rough and tumble guy. A difficult tournament fighter and a crazy brick, board and glass bottle breaker....... Being here in Arizona with another Karate Pioneer the Late Robert A. Trias, I was able to see many of these "hall of famers". The last time I personally saw him was up in Washington State doing a knives demo at a tournament in the late 80's. Admirable is his record!

Still, no one that I know, anointed him to change the ranks in American Kenpo.

:asian:

 

[C.E.Jackson]

quote: Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
Mr. "C", Do you present the Techniques in a different order than in Vol. 5???


Yes, I do the 16 Technique Curriculum that we were working on with Mr. Parker prior to his passing.


quote: Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
I know you use the "16" system which awards rank in different places, but is the order re-arrainged as well???



Well, it appears you do not know much about the "16 Technique Curriculum" because it "DOES NOT" award rank in different place. The order of Rank is still..... W-Y-O-P-B-G-3rdBrn-2ndBrn-1stBrn-1st - 10th Black.


Yes, the order is slightly re-arranged to conform more closely with the Web of Knowledge, but nothing is changed or dropped within the Base 154/5 Techniques as outlined in Book V.


quote: Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
Rank system I am now using is basicly the "16" system except the "black" ranks are "Multi-Level Provisional" black ranks rather than "Mult-Level Full" Black Belts. I reserve a "Full Black Belt for completetion of the written material (Techniques and Forms1-6).
Multi-Levels of Black Belt for Continuing studies and time in rank.



Ok, so" YOU" have changed the Belt System to Award Ranks in a different place.


quote: Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
I make NO CLAIM that this is ANY ONE's Idea but my own.



Ok great, does your instructor approve of the alteration?


quote: Originally posted by C.E.Jackson
I use Ed Parker's Techniques in the order as I know them and Ed Parker's Forms. So I claim to be teaching Ed Parker's American Kenpo. Is this Improper???


You have a right to claim anything you wish to claim.
I never challenged that.

 

[Nightingale]

I'm a first level brown belt right now...(no stripes...some call this first degree, some call it third)... I am not a black belt and I don't have the skills of a black belt. Were I forced to compete at a black belt level, I'd get my *** kicked, plain and simple. Brown belt divisions are about right for me, since I win about half the time. My skills are brown belt level.

the problem with looking at the amount of time someone has been training is that everyone learns at different speeds. It takes me FOREVER to learn something new...for those of you out there who aren't teachers, there are three ways of learning...by hearing, by seeing, and by doing, and although everyone can learn in any of the three ways, there is almost always one way they are really good at. karate requires that you learn by doing, as its physical. I, however, learn by hearing, so I can TELL you anything about how a technique has to be done, but I can't always show you. It takes me a very, very long time to learn a new kata or technique, or whatever, but once I've got it down, I never do it wrong again.

I think belt rankings are probably the best way to go, because it doesn't matter how long you've been doing it...if you're slow and just don't get it as quick, you're in a division with people at your same level.

I think some kind of national rank registry might be a better option. all the schools that are members, as soon as they promote someone, they report it, so there's no brown belts wearing yellow belts because they want a trophy.

 

[Nightingale]

regarding competition rank and studio rank being different...now this has merit... I'm also a dancer, and this is how we rank Irish Dance competitions:

to move up a level, you must win 3 competitions at your previous level. Everyone starts at basic level and works their way up. Competitions that you win because there are less than 3 competitors in your division don't count towards moving up unless you want to count them (if you're a black belt who just started competing, no point in staying down at yellow belt level just because there isn't anyone to compete with...however, if you're a yellow belt, you wouldn't want to count a competition you won by default, because that could make you move up before you are ready).

The downside of this is that these dance competitions are all part of an organization that tracks the wins. we would need something like that...I think MARS and IMAC do something like that with tracking wins...not sure tho.

 

[jfarnsworth]

I went out to mow the lawn for a while before coming back in here to read the new posts. Nightingale I WAS NOT trying to come out to make you do something you didn't want to do, nor was I trying to say anything derogatory towards you nor your instructor. (I took no offense to your post Mr. C.). What I was trying to do was have people look at the time in the arts. Your name just happened to be attached to your 13yrs. of experience. It could have been virtually anyone, anywhere. Nightingale I have read many of your posts and found a lot of good quality ideas and traits you bring to your writings. I am in no way a fast learner. I only know what I know and make no bones about it. Many people can kick my *** for that matter. Anyone that knows me real personally will tell you that a line that I have is "I can rattle you off a list of people who can beat me, know more, and are a hell of a lot better at it than me". For anyone to advance from brown to black belt division in a tournament 1st off should be ready to do so. This comes down to the advice of your instructor, tournament promoter, competitors in the tournament, and judges in the ring. Once again not to bring up those 2 guys whom I used to train with they just trashed everyone in the lower rank divisions. Even when they went into the black belt division they trashed people. They just had extraordinary skills, and instructor to train that way. I'm just an average guy, of average looks, and average build that just loves the art of kenpo and anything that pertains to kenpo. Kenpo was the best thing for me to switch from my TKD days. After saying all of that can we be friends.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[RCastillo]

"After saying all of that can we be friends?"

Sure, as long as you don't come to Texas! This is Tracy territory! Just ask DC!:samurai:

Just kidding! Don't start the "Kenpo Wars!"

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

Although you do have a point....... sort of....... If you haven't earned one..... you best not even touch one. I have students that have been in rank for years..... but are still green or Brown. And that's where they stay until they move up. Tournament or otherwise. While they may be excellent students there is still a mysterious mental side of the Black Belt. If you allow students to just throw on any rank they want because of a tournament or some sort of competition....... then what does that belt really mean. What if that's all they want is to compete in tournaments? If you allow them to wear black then they may as well become one for real.

I have seen many of these "Tournament Black Belts" many years after their tournament days are over ....... desire to start studios (most have left their original instructor for what ever reason), amazing............ what rank do you think they wear..... of course ..... the Black Belt they have become.

Well, now you know why there are so many Black Belts out there that may have good skills in some area but lack big doses of knowledge in others ........ because they never leaned the complete systems anyway. Now, I said many not all... some were also products of extremely poor instructors that promoted them and passed on the weak gene pool. Still others, that are ego and power driven, promote, double promote and even "Multiple" promote (several ranks at one time) on time, money, friendship, or God knows what the criteria is, and not true system knowledge and work, :rofl: one well known black belt even has the power to promote another to 10th Black Belt all by himself since he is so great and (the price was right) was a war hero!! WHAT EVER!!!!!!!!!! Each to his own. Me myself, I really enjoy legitimacy and NOT fraud.

But sometime I'll let you know how I really feel ...... If you ask.

:asian:

I asked............, and was demoted instantly. I now have no feathers, and am still in the nest, awaiting instructions!:wah:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Texas,
According to Mr. Catherman it's too humid there for me. Maybe you should try a winter up here. Of course it's not as bad as some places though (canada for instance). Actually I still want to be across the street from Mr. C's house. That perfect weather for me!
Jason Farnsworth

 

[jfarnsworth]

Mr. Castillo,
I actually want to be friends with just any everyone. I have a lot to learn about kenpo. Whether it is basics, self-defense, sparring, or what not.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Texas,
According to Mr. Catherman it's too humid there for me. Maybe you should try a winter up here. Of course it's not as bad as some places though (canada for instance). Actually I still want to be across the street from Mr. C's house. That perfect weather for me!
Jason Farnsworth

You got that right! I'd rather be in Vegas with you, and be a Lounge Lizard at the Casinos!

Across DC's house? Think again. The guy never sleeps, parks his car where ever he feels.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth

Mr. Castillo,
I actually want to be friends with just any everyone. I have a lot to learn about kenpo. Whether it is basics, self-defense, sparring, or what not.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

Of course, me too! Now, if only DC would stop spreading those nasty rumors about me!:soapbox:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



Yes, but you fail to say that it was set back in the late '70's over 30 years ago.

I studied with him for several years until his passing. The current curriculums is what he was "currently" working on at the time of his passing.

So I believe that he WAS updating the material because I was there and involved in it.

You are welcome to use what ever material you wish of course but just don't say that it was with Ed Parkers approval and not date it properly.

:asian:

I think you need to be careful. You are sounding more and more like me in some areas. next thing you know, you'll gain weight, and have trouble sleeping. Wait! So did Ed Parker.

Never mind.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Doc

next thing you know, you'll gain weight, and have trouble sleeping. Wait! So did Ed Parker.

That's a new one on me. Why did he have trouble sleeping?

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Kirk



That's a new one on me. Why did he have trouble sleeping?

He had a sleep disorder called "Sleep Apnea" which ultimately caused his passing.

 

[Nightingale]

sleep apnea is a condition where you snore and sometimes stop breathing when you sleep. nowadays, its usually curable with surgery or wearing a special retainer in your mouth while you sleep.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

sleep apnea is a condition where you snore and sometimes stop breathing when you sleep. nowadays, its usually curable with surgery or wearing a special retainer in your mouth while you sleep.

Nice try but I'm afraid you stated it much to simply. Snoring is a symptom but persons with Obstructed SA stop breathing anywhere from 300 to 600 times a night for as long as a minute and a half and therefore get a minimum of Rim Sleep (depending on severity). OSA is also associated wid SIDS. There are other forms as well. It is not as easily cured as you suggest in some, and has only recently been given serious atttention as one of the most under diagnosed disorders in this country. As recently a 10 years ago, only major university teaching hospitals even had a "sleep study" department. They are much more common place now. At any rate the effect on the body emotionally, physically, and psychologically is devestating in OSA and without treatment usually leads to coronary failure from sustained stress and lack of RIM rejuvenation and organ fatigue.

Those close to Ed Parker like Dennis know what I mean. He almost never went to bed in the later years. He only "nodded" off from time to time, often during conversations or sitting on a test. He refused to explore treatment and chose to just work. In the end it took many years away from him and us.

 

[Klondike93]

I have a friend that suffers from SA, and it leaves him tired. I don't think it's as bad as you described though Doc, he's always sleeping! We go hunting and I can hear him snore then stop and then shocked back to breathing again and it can be a little disturbing.


:asian: