- Feb 18, 2008
- Reaction score
- Melbourne, Australia
I’m sorry if my post came off as arrogant or disrespectful. I was trying to explain the context to which I came to martial arts.
The reason I went into the explanation about climbing is that when you are 50 feet of the deck and at the “crux” move and you are pumped and your last clip is so far below you that it means if you blow the move you are going for a ride where your belayer better do a great catch or you will have a groundfall, your teacher isn’t going to be able to come up and say “your weight is a little high, tense your muscles in your left leg and shift a bit to your right.” The student is fully responsible for their training and must develop a great deal of proprioception. It is a self-reliant activity where the individual owns their development and their motivation. There are no belts or levels. There are no team extreme competitions with pretty synchronized moves. There also is no history of needing the person next to you being able to stand firm in a skjaldborg. In climbing, you need to explicitly not count on anyone else as compared to much of martial arts history.
Climbing moves are graded across a consensus of individuals, but even with in that a hard “offwidth” (think scraping up a chimney in by inch, it is a very masochistic hobby) is very different than an equivalently hard “face climb”. The best climbers must have not only a passion for the activity but a great introspective nature to be able to question a move and feel what is right. And what is right is worked and worked and worked until a specific move flows. Climbers will often work a route right at their limit for weeks, months, and sometimes even years. When they are on the ground they can ask for help and they can watch someone else execute a move, but they must, on their own, figure out how they execute the move. No two people ever climb the same route in the exact same way. Coaching is a form of suggesting how someone might, but it is the student who must do.
There is an excellent DVD / book combination call “The Self Coached Climber”, it is standard fare for a recommendation for all new climbers. It has way more than any new climber could digest and most people re-read it at different stages in their development. One of the hidden gems of the DVD is where the filmed two pro climbers trying to “redpoint” a route (working it repeatedly over the course of several days). Then, from the same angle, with the same climber the DVD breaks down why the climber was able to execute the move one time and the next time they failed. The camera revealed the subtle movements and weight shifts, it helped me greatly progress in building my proprioception which has in turn helped with things like my stances and blocks.
The problem is that this is absolutely nothing like martial arts training. At all. As a result, they have no real relevance to your martial arts perspective except in your personal philosophy, which isn't anything that we would have a way of relating to.
These activities in my life have colored my perspective. I bring a strong “student focused” aspect to my martial arts training (it is the student that owns their own martial art). I am always interpreting what I am taught with the filter of both my life history and my expectations for my future. My odds of facing three thugs on a train are virtually nil, but it is fun to train for multiple attackers in a confined space. I do, however, put more effort into those things that will more likely benefit me and my life. I do martial arts as an integrated part of my broader view of how to best live my life. The WIIFM filter is always on. If that is wrong in your eyes, so be it. My hyper critical mind makes me a crappy student for many things (I’m much better about not speaking up at corporate training after years of pointing out obvious flaws to the detriment of my career) and I willingly accept that I will never master any single style. If you think is a less efficient way to learn, we can certainly discuss. If your assumption is that I would miss things because I lack the experience to judge what is right and what is wrong, you may be right. However, after spending years developing several skills (not just climbing) in this self-directed style and self-sufficient manner, to say that I would make the same miss as an arrogant teenager is to underestimate my personal development.
Except that we have repeatedly pointed out that this method doesn't work for martial arts. There are just too many differences.
I think training of how to learn skills is in itself; a specific skill that needs to be cultivated. I have trained for it, I’m fairly good at it, and I recommend it.
The training needs to be relevant to the skill and application. This method is not when it comes to martial arts.
As to the superiority complex, again, I apologize if it came off that way.
Not a problem, but you may want to rethink your approach to those who have spent years, or in a number of cases, decades learning this stuff. Continually arguing against those who genuinely do know better because you want to assume that everyone has a limited experience will just get people frustrated in dealings with you.
And as to the “pills”, sorry for the cheezy reference. Here is the joke:
And the reason for asking the clarification was that I was curious as to why once you have slipped the front kick would you not go for the thumb thrust to the ribs. I was curious if the kick was more for destabilizing the return to the ground of the attacker’s foot and slowing their ability to react or if it was intended as strike at a sensitive area (back of knee or pills). It does have nothing to do with anything else here, I’m just curious.
Honestly, it's really not relevant, and the only way for me to really take you through what it is, and why, would be in person (that's the way to learn these things), so there's no real need to answer. But, so you know, the reason you don't just go for the Boshi Ken is that it won't work.
I proudly state that I am a 1st degree dan from a McDojo. (among a few other minor things.)
I didn't intend that it was dancing around, it was more that, to me, there were other bits that interested me more in replying to. There have been many statements, questions, and people I wanted to reply to, but I didn't. If that lended to the appearance that I was dodging the question, I again, appologize.
Sometimes statements will certainly stand on their own feet without it mattering who they come from, but when it's a discussion of methods of learning, and the person putting forth a pro-DVD argument seems to be displaying no idea whatsoever about martial arts and the way they work and are learnt, the context of who exactly is saying it comes into it. If you're just a person who has seen some Bruce Lee films and has made some uninformed decisions and beliefs, that's a fair enough reason to not listen, if you turn around and say "well, I've trained in 5 systems over the last 30 years, I hold X-Dan in this one, X-Dan in this one etc", then things are a bit different. This is why that particular question, whether it interested you or not, was actually quite vital to the discussion.
Now, your profile lists TKD, and this is the first indication of any rank that I've seen from you. I would ask, though, how you knew the school to be a "McDojo", as that is coming across as a value judgement at the moment, and as you have not mentioned the art yourself, your answer is still far from "clear and concise". Let's see if we can get something solid.
How long have you trained in TKD? Do you still train in it? How long ago was it, if you don't? We'll start there.
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