Bassai Dai Discussion and Applications - Video

Makalakumu

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Bassai Dai is a kata that is ubiquitous in many karate systems. There are many different versions infact. The name translates to "Penetrating the Fortress" and this can mean many different things. Each interpretation of "penetrating" and "fortress" changes how one looks at the moves in this kata. It is often described as an entire martial art in one form because of this.

Here are some videos of how we do this kata. The first one is the kata at regular speed. The next two break the kata down more slowly and split it in half at different angles so people can get a better look at what is going on.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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Here is a thread that discusses how other karate-do arts view this kata and its meaning.
 

crushing

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crushing said:
Wow. They did a great job with that video. Thank you for sharing this find, along with your videos.

You are welcome. I hope you find it useful in your training. I think that alot of martial artists have been practicing these kata for years are amazed by what these moves actually represent. Somehow, the purpose behind kata was lost...:(
 

MBuzzy

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UpNorth,

I am learning Hyung and Tang Soo Do at a fairly accelerated pace due to my environment and have been doing a great deal of research regarding what I've learned. I have found resources that show the Hyung Bassai and some mention Bassai Dai and Bassai Sho, but they only show one version. Can you enlighten me anymore as to the differences, how they were split, and why some places only refer to one version of the Hyung?

GM Hwang Kee particularly interested me, because he mentions both, but only illustrates one form and does not talk about which one it is. Are they the same Hyung, just in different forms? Thank you!!
 
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I am learning Hyung and Tang Soo Do at a fairly accelerated pace due to my environment and have been doing a great deal of research regarding what I've learned. I have found resources that show the Hyung Bassai and some mention Bassai Dai and Bassai Sho, but they only show one version. Can you enlighten me anymore as to the differences, how they were split, and why some places only refer to one version of the Hyung?

GM Hwang Kee particularly interested me, because he mentions both, but only illustrates one form and does not talk about which one it is. Are they the same Hyung, just in different forms? Thank you!!

There are many versions of passai kata. The particular Dai and Sho version that we practice comes from shotokan. Funakoshi Gichin, the founder of Shotokan, learned both of these from Anko Itosu, who in turn learned a form that was called passai from Bushi Matsumura. The original form of passai is dissimilar to the one that is practiced in Shotokan and the one that we practice.

It is thought that Itosu changed the form that he learn in order to sanitize it and make it safe to be taught to school children (it can be reverted back to its original deadly form if one knows how). It is also thought that he is the one who split these particular forms so that they would be easier to learn.

Bassai Dai is a really long form afterall...
 

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So are they actually two separate forms, or the same form split into two for ease of teaching?
 
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Makalakumu

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So are they actually two separate forms, or the same form split into two for ease of teaching?

Now, they are two separate forms, but they haven't always been that way. Some of the older versions of Passai are very long indeed!
 

JT_the_Ninja

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Bassai Dai is a kata that is ubiquitous in many karate systems. There are many different versions infact. The name translates to "Penetrating the Fortress" and this can mean many different things. Each interpretation of "penetrating" and "fortress" changes how one looks at the moves in this kata. It is often described as an entire martial art in one form because of this.

Here are some videos of how we do this kata. The first one is the kata at regular speed. The next two break the kata down more slowly and split it in half at different angles so people can get a better look at what is going on.

Wow...the person in that video really needs to reconsider how he trains; that form was horribly over-rushed and sloppy.

Bassai Dai (though I pronounce it more like "Bal Chae Deh") is a form that really lives up to its name, "Selection of the Best." You have to practice landing hand and feet at the same time, using your waist to snap moves, and keeping yourself into a good stance, or you get what you see here.

The breakdown with the self-defense is pretty cool; it's obviously a different interpretation of the form than the one I use, but very useful.

When the weather gets better, I'll probably get out my camera and make a video, because although my technique is hardly top-notch, it'd be easier to illustrate my point with a video. Hey, I could even do it with opponents, to show what each move is doing throughout the form. Forms are really just one side of a fight, remember.
 
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Makalakumu

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Wow...the person in that video really needs to reconsider how he trains; that form was horribly over-rushed and sloppy.

Hmm, that's me by the way...

Anyway, why do you think so? How do you do it? Why?
 

kyosa

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overall the bassai form that is displayed is a good form. some systems practice the form quicker and some practice it slow and methodically and some systems practice it somewhere in between. this version has more of a kung fu element where as it is quicker and the body is loose rather than tense. whats interesting is that ive seen the many versions of this form in shotokan, ryu kyu kempo, tang soo do and even tae kwon do and even though they each do it slightly differently and they have a different "flavor" if you will, they are all remarkably similar.
 
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Makalakumu

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One of the things that strikes me about how we do it is the fact that we really emphasize the quick-stepping and flow from one technique to another. I think that this emphasizes several sections of the form that are quicker then others. This, IMHO, is teaching a lesson about multiple opponents. It's giving you the footwork and the tempo your techniques need to be moving and its pretty much showing you that you have no time to waste!
 

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Very interesting to see different interpretations of the form. I have found that I this form has indeed evolved within me. Meaning, when I began to learn this form they consisted of many strikes and "hard blocks". As I became more mature (still have a ways to go) and experienced I let the natural motions of the techniques guide me. I now practice it (when I do) and I feel the locks and levers "hidden" in the series of movements. Hopefully I can get a video clip to show you all some of my interpretations. I hope to see more and hear more on this subject. Thanks all.

Tang Soo!

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Zida'sukara

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The kata on the videos look great, I have never heard of Superior Tangsoodo before.

The lazy part of me likes to say: Hey tell me about it, but I gues I will go reading the other threads.... ;)
 

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If the Bassai forms are like this, what about the Nihanchis?

Thanks

Ian
 

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