Atacx gym capoeira: You can fight with it

[Twin Fist]

let me summerize the other thread:

A:this works for real

B:uh.....no

A:yes it does, see? insert lots of rota

B:thats just dancing, it wont work

A:but...history blah blah silva blah blah

B:doesnt matter, that isnt self defense and you are claiming it works for self defense

A:it does

B:these clips of the rota dont

A:that isnt the real stuff, thats just the dance part

B:show us the real stuff

A:we cant, but trust me, it works

B:if it works show me

A:we cant, trust us

B:no, show me

A:we cant, there isnt any of the REAL stuff on tape

B:if you cant show me then i wont believe it since it is illogical, impractical and dangerous to even try

A:you are just closed minded


that sums it up, claims of effectiveness with nothing to back it up. Lots of excessive pointless verbiage about history and brazillian ninjas and ****.

 

[Twin Fist]

That thread turned into a fiasco and was ultimately locked. The discussion in this thread is largely going in that same direction. Personally, I put some information out there simply to educate. People can take it or leave it. I have zero interest in convincing anyone who does not want to be convinced. The opinions of the willfully and deliberately ignorant have no affect on reality, and their decisions to remain "unconvinced" in no way bothers me. Just speaking for myself. And Mike, I'm not aiming these comments at you. Your post just sparked the keyboard diarrhea.

we BEGGED you to show us the "real" capoiera, the "practical for self defense" stuff, all you showed us was the dancers.

It was less than convincing.

Not our fault "pro capoiera" side couldnt prove or support thier position with anything other than "well...i say so"

 

[Tez3]

What about this?

I have to say that sometimes unusual techniques work well, at training our lot were doing a drill that was basically a bit of fun, last man standing, what it says it is. My daughter, 6 stone and 5ft faced being taken down by a 6ft Guardsman, she went straight down into splits, his face was a picture, she took him down with her legs as in one of the movements on this video clip, she got a standing ovation.

I suspect people will watch above video and say 'well we do that so it's not Capoiera', tbh I don't know, what I know about Capoeira you can write on the back of a postage stamp. There's one move I liked alot in there and will make the guys wince lol!

 

[Twin Fist]

an elbow to the face is an elbow to the face

doesnt really matter where you learned it.

 

[Twin Fist]

one word:
gymkata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPGUZxOCRcs&feature=related

What about this?

I have to say that sometimes unusual techniques work well, at training our lot were doing a drill that was basically a bit of fun, last man standing, what it says it is. My daughter, 6 stone and 5ft faced being taken down by a 6ft Guardsman, she went straight down into splits, his face was a picture, she took him down with her legs as in one of the movements on this video clip, she got a standing ovation.

I suspect people will watch above video and say 'well we do that so it's not Capoiera', tbh I don't know, what I know about Capoeira you can write on the back of a postage stamp. There's one move I liked alot in there and will make the guys wince lol!

 

[Tez3]

We have a series of programmes here called 'Grumpy on men on....' a whole load of old actors, celebrities etc have a whinge on different subjects... this one is football, I'll suggest martial arts as a subject to the BBC and I know exactly the chap to go on it.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

Thanks for sharing brother Ras. There is no doubt that I saw similarities between Capoeira and Indian Martial Arts and the Chinese Martial Arts.

 

[Gemini]

We have a series of programmes here called 'Grumpy on men on....'

Lol. I enjoyed that immensely! I think I became one somewhere 'cause they sound just like me!

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Back on topic...

It will work!'
No, it won't!
Yes, it will!
No, it won't!
Ye...

 

[Flying Crane]

Lol. I enjoyed that immensely! I think I became one somewhere 'cause they sound just like me!

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Back on topic...

It will work!'
No, it won't!
Yes, it will!
No, it won't!
Ye...

actually, it's...

It works.

No it doesn't!

ok, have it your way. it doesnt. :rofl:

 

[Tez3]

Lol. I enjoyed that immensely! I think I became one somewhere 'cause they sound just like me!

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Back on topic...

It will work!'
No, it won't!
Yes, it will!
No, it won't!
Ye...

That's British pantomime where the character on stage says 'Oh no he isn't' and the audience shouts back 'oh yes he is' or vice versa, it goes on a few times then someone creeps up behind the character and the audience shouts 'look behind you'. The Principal Boy is a girl, the Dame is a man, the horse or cow is two people and you get to boo and hiss at the baddies and cheer for the goodies, great fun for everyone.

Is there a reason a good Capoeira person couldn't make it work for SD? Are people perhaps just not wanting it to work because it's something out of our experience?

 

[Flying Crane]

Is there a reason a good Capoeira person couldn't make it work for SD? Are people perhaps just not wanting it to work because it's something out of our experience?

I dunno. It boggles my mind. I think there are people who insist on speaking from a position of ignorance, and I think a lot of it is driven by simple self-righteous spite. Maybe there's mental illness involved, who can say? That's about all I can come up with.

 

[Twin Fist]

not agreeing with you does not equal ignorance. Not thinking something is good does not equal not wanting it to be good.

it damned sure doesnt equal mental illness. You need to apologize for that, It was a petty remark.

any BB level martial artist with enough experience SHOULD be able to look at a given technique and evaluate it. And opinions will not always be the same. Particuarly when the case made for it is weak.

 

[Tez3]

not agreeing with you does not equal ignorance. Not thinking something is good does not equal not wanting it to be good.

it damned sure doesnt equal mental illness. You need to apologize for that, It was a petty remark.

any BB level martial artist with enough experience SHOULD be able to look at a given technique and evaluate it. And opinions will not always be the same. Particuarly when the case made for it is weak.

I asked a question, I don't think you can not agree with a question as it's not an opinion, all you can do with a question is answer it...or not.

 

[Gemini]

That's British pantomime where the character on stage says 'Oh no he isn't' and the audience shouts back 'oh yes he is' or vice versa, it goes on a few times then someone creeps up behind the character and the audience shouts 'look behind you'. The Principal Boy is a girl, the Dame is a man, the horse or cow is two people and you get to boo and hiss at the baddies and cheer for the goodies, great fun for everyone.

So THAT's where we got Rocky Horror Picture Show from!

Is there a reason a good Capoeira person couldn't make it work for SD? Are people perhaps just not wanting it to work because it's something out of our experience?

Coming from a back ground of Taekwondo where people continue to be surprised because we do other things than high flying kicks, I can relate to their situation. People educated in any topic can pretty easily spot one that isn't. To support Flying Crane's position, why would you continue to engage them?

What I teach my own students is, the best strike is the one your opponent doesn't see coming or isn't ready for. Leading your opponent to think one thing and then deliver something else is hardly isolated to Taekwondo. I've seen too many strikes that shouldn't work that did, that I just can't take that position. One of the slowest forming kicks we practice is called a 360. It's basically a really cool looking kick that delivers a ton of power that you throw at a board or some other unsuspecting animate object. You'd have to be a total tool to get nailed by one, but it does happen. Why? Because the opponent was prepared for something else. If you have a strike that can be delivered in the guise of something else, it will work. It's not my style, but I wouldn't dismiss it to a competent practitioner of it.

 

[Twin Fist]

wasnt answering you Tez, i was speakign to Flying Crane

I asked a question, I don't think you can not agree with a question as it's not an opinion, all you can do with a question is answer it...or not.

 

[Tez3]

wasnt answering you Tez, i was speakign to Flying Crane

I'm sure he doesn't have crystal balls anymore than I do so if you'd said, we'd have known.

 

[Flying Crane]

crystal balls

snicker snicker. you wouldn't know what kinda balls I have, would you...

 

[Flying Crane]

We have a series of programmes here called 'Grumpy on men on....' a whole load of old actors, celebrities etc have a whinge on different subjects... this one is football, I'll suggest martial arts as a subject to the BBC and I know exactly the chap to go on it.

"shouting the 'C' word as if the right to use it is about to be taken away"

funny stuff.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Okay look. Alot of people on this thread ALREADY USE CAPOEIRA TECHS YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT. Do you throw punches, kicks, knees, elbows? Do you grab people by their hair and sweep or slam them? Do you kick people in the nads as a viable self defense tech? Do you poke people in the eyes and smash throats, and/or consider that eye gouges and fish hooks are legit self defense techs?

http://youtu.be/so_HQRCFezU


Even people who--due to the rules and politics--have to use roda type capoeira to make contact are still doing exactly what many say can't be done and isn't done by capoeiristas: they attack with cartwheel kicks, they use takedowns and punches and leg kicks and body blows. Even though the rules require open hand palm strikes and slaps instead of bareknuckle punches...similar to how traditional bareknuckle karate bans punches to the face but nobody's stupid enough to presume that kyokushinkai fighters arent' hardcore fighters:

http://youtu.be/1-dUB-Y85eY

http://youtu.be/1-dUB-Y85eY

ANDERSON THE SPIDER SILVA CAPOEIRA

http://youtu.be/1-dUB-Y85eY

look how similar these moves are to Anderson's fights:

http://youtu.be/77eWTjQPt3I

http://youtu.be/vtaOxs-GyHo

http://youtu.be/5HDes1gkLZ0




Like I said, everyone on this site uses techs which are a part of capoeira. You may train them differently. You may not even know that you use them. But you do. Capoeira works and most of you onsite have spent a lifetime proving it by using techs which you share in common with capoeira. As for the ginga? YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE...you just were so asleep at the wheel that you didn't realize the universality of its effectiveness and use in martial arts for millenia.

You never had any problem with dances before. You could separate the dance Ram Muay from the MARTIAL ART Muay Boran and its sportive grandson Muay Thai.

http://youtu.be/MH1kkYB8lT8


It's not accidental that these very movements are immortalized in medu neter near the 2nd cataract of the Nile in Africa centuries before Thailand existed. Think upon that. And I won't even bring the Nubians into the discussion...that's too much for yall right now. Lolol. And it would contribute to too much thread drift, which I don't want.

So stop hatin on the ginga and recognize the same respect that you give Muay Thai and other martial arts [ likely including the very martial art you study now] which has dance as an integral part is also the respect that is due to capoeira. Recognize that the ginga has an incredibly important rule visavis what Kenpoists call Position Recognition and visavis anybody with any sense at all understands about the supremacy of footwork...as long as you understand that the dance of the playful roda and celebrations are NOT the dance you're going to use when you fight and are NOT the way YOU TRAIN the dance FOR a fight. My Mestre Roque told me that HIS Mestre told him that Capoeira is: "...the Dance of Death..." and he is right.

I'm not saying that you should train in Capoeira if you don't want to. I am saying that you can fight with capoeira...you 100% for sure use techniques that are extant in capoeira and swear by their efficacy, whether those techs are high flying or low to the ground, flashy or street nasty, or anything in between. And I will show you more of the same in methods that you're not used to seeing if you come to this thread with an empty cup, an open sensible and critical mind...and a sense of respect and adventure.

 

[ATACX GYM]

I like Capoeira for the same reason I like Taekkyon: Its a Dance, which shifts seamlessly into Striking.For once, I can speak for a System I have gotten around to Researching, which was due to an interest in Capeoira I had about a Year ago. Never mind War - Theres one thing that I believe makes Capeoira Strong: It has multiple opponents in mind for everything. Thats all. Thats why I like it. I can praise a bunch of other things, but thats the single reason I like it. Hell, if You want to hear Me praise Capoeira, make a Video of some Leg Sweeps. Leg Sweeps out of nowere > Body/Head Strikes out of nowere, in that they cannot be blocked or checked, only evaded. I do not, however, approve of all Capoeira. Just some of it.

I will put up such a collection of videos late next week. Full speed. Promise.

In the meantime? Enjoy some clips of Mestre Eberson who does all that you asked for...in the roda.

Look at Instrutor Haiti pull off all kindsa amazing stuff including a jaw dropping floor supported leg sweep at 0:51-0:52 and all kindsa stuff that should be humanly impossible but for him is basically "ho, hum, yawn" stuff.