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Hey guy's, please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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And no, one arm blocks are not acceptable in the majority of tkd, Tsd or karate.
Perhaps I'm just not getting something or we have a terminology difference, but would you please explain to me what you mean by one armed blocks.

Most of the blocks that I learned in TSD, karate, and taekwondo were performed using a single arm to intercept or deflect an incoming strike, so I have the feeling that you mean something other than using two arms simultaneously to deflect or intercept an attack.

Or are you referring to just using arm movement without any accompanying movement by the body and the other arm?

If you've already addressed this, my apologies.
 

msmitht

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I dont see any attempt to discredit you. I was honestly asking why you ditched nearly 50% of your art to fill in perceived gaps. At your level of rank your basicly a instructor. WTH do you tell your students about the movements they are spending countless hours doing? Do you spend class time teaching boxing/mma/muay thai defense instead of KKW defensive techniques? Did you delete the KKW defensive techniques from your course syllabus?

Don't take that as a attack either, I honestly want to know. Because by the way you describe your self, I see more kickboxer/mma then anything resembling a traditionaly minded TKD. If that is truly how you practice, then I wonder if more KKW instructors will move or are moving away from traditional teachings to a more kickboxer/mma type skillset and methodology.
I teach traditional kkw tkd and bjj in separate classes. When it comes to realistic punching and defense I use boxing drills. You don't know me so don't pretend to assume what I teach or how. With the exception of more realistic hands training the curriculum is pure kukki tkd.
Yes I am an instructor with plenty of experience and still gaining more every day. You still have not listed your levels/training and seem to be avoiding doing so.
Have a nice day:)
 

msmitht

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Perhaps I'm just not getting something or we have a terminology difference, but would you please explain to me what you mean by one armed blocks.

Most of the blocks that I learned in TSD, karate, and taekwondo were performed using a single arm to intercept or deflect an incoming strike, so I have the feeling that you mean something other than using two arms simultaneously to deflect or intercept an attack.

Or are you referring to just using arm movement without any accompanying movement by the body and the other arm?

If you've already addressed this, my apologies.
I was referring to the accompanying movement of the other arm and body as it pertains to forms mainly.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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Balrog it hit me while reading this whole thread that honestly I think people are making way to much about time to black belt. It was posted once in this thread and ignored that in Korea that it only takes a little over a year to reach BB. I have said it before, I am not young any more at 32. I have always wanted to do TKD Like my father did, and actually use it(and my other acquired skills of course) in the a Amature cage fight. I do not have the luxury of time any more.

Sounds familiar, given my area. As for length of time to BB, in Korea, average time to black belt is one year and the first dan is viewed as barely more than a raw beginner. I have no idea what kind of money is involved over there, though.
I'll take credit for that. :D

Honestly I don't like the fact that so many TMA force people to wait 5 years before black belt. The reason black belt is so important is, and ill quote the KKW instructor I talked to. "You really start to learn Tae Kwon Do at black belt" I don't want to waste years in color belts only to be 40 before I actually start learning the real art.. It does not take me very long to learn a movement, and apply it as I am already finding out.
I find that in my area, average time to black belt in a Korean art is rougly 18-30 months. I place no value judgement on it provided students aren't made to grade regardless of whether or not they're ready and provided they aren't pushed to test as a financial boon to the school.

Honestly if you don't really start learning the art and how to actually use it till black belt, why prolong the process till they reach the point were your actually teaching them the art?
I don't think that it's a matter of not learning the art until first dan, but of only learning the raw basics until first dan. During the geub grades, however many an org/school has, the student is learning how to move and learning the technical foundation of the art. Each art has specific ways of performing the motions associated with its techniques. I saw boxing mentioned earlier; boxing has punches. Taekwondo has punches. But in taekwondo, you learn to punch from the hip with a rotating fist. Boxing punches are different. So both arts have punches but you learn them differently. A lot of arts have kicks but they don't perform the same kicks and they don't perform the same kicks the same way. Even within an art, you have variations. ITF/Chang Hon has sine wave as part of the execution of techniques. Kukki taekwondo uses hip rotation. So even if you're learning the same technique, you learn it differently.

Once you reach first dan, hopefully you've internalized the movements and have built the muscle memory to do them as you've been taught without having to think about it. Only after you've reached this point can you begin to focus on principles and on more advanced elements of the art. Many people have commented on many threads in this section that they haven't needed to learn extraneous techniques against all manner of attacks, but that they have defended themselves against attacks not seen in shihap kyorugi by using the principles of the art rather than special techniques aimed at the specific attack.

I second this assessment, but you won't be doing that until you've mastered (attained proficiency in and internalized) the basics. This takes time, especially given that in taekwondo, hand/arm attacks and defenses, leg/foot attacks, postures, and footwork along with numerous patterns, each with a meaning of some kind, are all included in the basics.

So ya all the hate aimed at the ATA for there quick belt process is stupid in light of the fact One can hop the pond and get it in a year in a legit Korean dojang..

Don't take this as a insult ATA guys here, but I honestly never thought I would be defending your org.. It feels strange, I used to be a hater.
It's nice not to be a hater, isn't it? :)
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I am not sure what prearranged sparring is
Prearranged sparring is step sparring, be it one, two three, or even five step sparring. It can be a useful teaching tool or it can just be filler in lieu of an actual self defense curriculum.

Like most things it really comes down to the material and the teacher. In kendo, we use step sparring to teach certain techniques, though we just call it waza. In hapkido, I learned the techniques in what amounts to step sparring. In both instances, it is very beneficial, and once the technique is learned, it is integrated into the bigger picture.

Then there's step sparring that amounts to little more than larping, and I've seen that more than I'd care to have.
 

RTKDCMB

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Prearranged sparring is step sparring, be it one, two three, or even five step sparring. It can be a useful teaching tool or it can just be filler in lieu of an actual self defense curriculum.

Like most things it really comes down to the material and the teacher. In kendo, we use step sparring to teach certain techniques, though we just call it waza. In hapkido, I learned the techniques in what amounts to step sparring. In both instances, it is very beneficial, and once the technique is learned, it is integrated into the bigger picture.

Then there's step sparring that amounts to little more than larping, and I've seen that more than I'd care to have.

Thanks but I am well aware of 1 and 3 step sparring is and all of the benefits they provide, it is used extensively in the traditional Tae Kwon Do school I am in. The poster I replied to made it sound as though he was referring to a form of free sparring that is prearranged and separate to one steps, i.e.

Not referring to one steps or per arranged sparring.

Then there's step sparring that amounts to little more than larping, and I've seen that more than I'd care to have.

I don't care too much for the Live Action Role Playing type either (I did not have to look that up), except for purely entertainment purposes.
 

Balrog

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Balrog it hit me while reading this whole thread that honestly I think people are making way to much about time to black belt. It was posted once in this thread and ignored that in Korea that it only takes a little over a year to reach BB. I have said it before, I am not young any more at 32. I have always wanted to do TKD Like my father did, and actually use it(and my other acquired skills of course) in the a Amature cage fight. I do not have the luxury of time any more.

Honestly I don't like the fact that so many TMA force people to wait 5 years before black belt. The reason black belt is so important is, and ill quote the KKW instructor I talked to. "You really start to learn Tae Kwon Do at black belt" I don't want to waste years in color belts only to be 40 before I actually start learning the real art.. It does not take me very long to learn a movement, and apply it as I am already finding out.

Honestly if you don't really start learning the art and how to actually use it till black belt, why prolong the process till they reach the point were your actually teaching them the art?
As I have said before, one can liken this to school. Making 1st Degree is like graduating from high school. You're learning the basics; once you graduate, you then start to learn the art. In the USA, it takes us longer to make 1st Degree because most folks don't train as much as they do in Korea. The usual is 2-3 classes a week, for 45 minutes to an hour per class. Compare that to someone who trains 2-3 hours (or more) a day. Who will learn quicker?

It can't be totally rushed. There is a certain amount of time needed to let the mind catch up with the physical skills, as well as training the physical skills to be reflexive. If one bakes a cake and the directions say 2 hours at 250 degrees, what happens if you turn the heat up to 500 and only go for 1 hour? You wind up with something that might look done on the surface but is still raw on the inside.
So ya all the hate aimed at the ATA for there quick belt process is stupid in light of the fact One can hop the pond and get it in a year in a legit Korean dojang..

Don't take this as a insult ATA guys here, but I honestly never thought I would be defending your org.. It feels strange, I used to be a hater.
Our process isn't all that short. In my school, if one goes up the colored belt rank ladder with no hesitations along the way, it will take around 30 months. As I said, I don't want to rush the process. I feel that you do not earn a Black Belt, the Black Belt "earns" you. When you are ready to be a Black Belt, you'll be one.

And thanks for the kind words for ATA. We are all martial artists, and all of us are trying to improve ourselves daily, no matter what art we train in or what style we practice.
 

Balrog

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I may not be on the path to starting tkd soon(thought I was, but time is still not right.) I will honestly be giving the ATA a hard look.
Kframe, if you will PM me your zip code, I'll be glad to look up ATA schools nearby and give you a recommendation on them.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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As I have said before, one can liken this to school. Making 1st Degree is like graduating from high school. You're learning the basics; once you graduate, you then start to learn the art.
I'd even go so far as to say making first dan is like graduating from the eighth grade. Third dan is like graduating high school and fourth dan is a bachelors degree. Fifth is a Masters and sixth is a PHD.
 

Balrog

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Balrog, I am tried to message you but your box is full.
Try it now. I just learned that it keeps sent messages and counts them against your message total. Did some housekeeping, so there's room in the Inbox again.
 

Balrog

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I'd even go so far as to say making first dan is like graduating from the eighth grade. Third dan is like graduating high school and fourth dan is a bachelors degree. Fifth is a Masters and sixth is a PHD.
You're almost in line with me.

1st Degree - college freshman
2nd Degree - sophomore
3rd Degree - junior
4th Degree - senior graduates with bachelor degree
5th Degree - working on Master's
6th Degree - Master's thesis and degree
7th and above - working on PhD
I say working on PhD because the research really doesn't stop until you die.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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You're almost in line with me.

1st Degree - college freshman
2nd Degree - sophomore
3rd Degree - junior
4th Degree - senior graduates with bachelor degree
5th Degree - working on Master's
6th Degree - Master's thesis and degree
7th and above - working on PhD
I say working on PhD because the research really doesn't stop until you die.
Pretty close. I just start with high school instead of college. :)
 

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