assisting youth classes: dealing with problem behavior

[lavender]

Hi,

I'm interested to hear ideas for handling problem behaviors, specifically kids not adults

I'm assisting kid TKD classes and I've got a few behaviors specifically in mind. The whiner, the chatter, and the show off. Had all 3 in one class today, multiple whiners and chatters - and one combination whiner-chatter.

Whiner: general constant murmur of things like awwwwww; i'm tiiiired; i can't; my foot itches too much from this bug bite; excuses, etc. Does this every time. Other students don't want to be partnered with them for drills (also don't hold the target well for them - on one occassion a whiner sat on the floor and refused).
Chatter: chatting with people (next to them or across the room), unnecessary chatter, every class, multiple warnings, aaaand they infect the rest of the class
Show-off: this one tonight is still a new student, always fancy footing during drills and between them, borderline disrespectful in other respects

-Warnings: "if you keep doing x _________ will happen." ___ is: have to do 20 pushups; have to sit out; can't play the game at the end of class; will take your belt; you have to leave the room. I must remember to ask if I have free rein to administer these disciplines. I'm still very new at this.
-I'm learning to wipe-off my "helpful face" and turn it into something firmer and harder. That helped a bit tonight with the biggest whiner I've seen so far and with the show-off.
-As I'm just assisting the teacher I like to stay relatively quiet myself so I'm not drowning him out or calling attention away from him and to the student I'm correcting. I suppose I can ask the 2 instructors their perspective on that. I might not be as loud as I sound to myself.

Soooo......

 

[Cyriacus]

Oh boy.

First, threatening people with exercise is only going to either encourage them (Pushups or listening to you? Pushups!) or make them resent you. Making them sit it out is giving them what they want. Not letting them play the game at the end of class patronizes them. Taking their belt is basically taking their parents money if theyre not paying for it. Leaving the room isnt a punishment if they dont want to be in the room to begin with. Changing a facial expression will work on some people, but it wont make them want to be there. Being loud isnt going to cause compliance.

You need to try and make them want to be there. If they dont want to be there and they dont want to learn, punishing them is going to make them want to be there even less, and make them want to learn even less. Its just as ineffective in a playground (Im assuming by youth, youre referring to kids and not referring to teenagers. Otherwise, alot of your warnings would have 100 fold the effects ive listed. If they are teenagers, replace playground with school in general). Also, youre teaching them that pushups are a bad thing thats used as a 'penalty', and not a valid exercise which has numerous benefits.

Find the stuff that theyre interested in doing. Do it. If they dont wanna kick mitts, take them for a run around the hall. Run until they wanna fall over. Then do some punching with their less exhausted arms. Get them to do as many pushups as they can, and make a competition out of it to see who can do the most, then reward them. Rewarding them may make some others want to be rewarded. Theres countless ways of doing this without making them resent you and without feeding their not wanting to be there. If they wanted to be there, theyd be willing learners. Make sense?

Also, people cant chatter if theyre out of breath.

 

[oftheherd1]

Oh boy.

First, threatening people with exercise is only going to either encourage them (Pushups or listening to you? Pushups!) or make them resent you. Making them sit it out is giving them what they want. Not letting them play the game at the end of class patronizes them. Taking their belt is basically taking their parents money if theyre not paying for it. Leaving the room isnt a punishment if they dont want to be in the room to begin with. Changing a facial expression will work on some people, but it wont make them want to be there. Being loud isnt going to cause compliance.

You need to try and make them want to be there. If they dont want to be there and they dont want to learn, punishing them is going to make them want to be there even less, and make them want to learn even less. Its just as ineffective in a playground (Im assuming by youth, youre referring to kids and not referring to teenagers. Otherwise, alot of your warnings would have 100 fold the effects ive listed. If they are teenagers, replace playground with school in general). Also, youre teaching them that pushups are a bad thing thats used as a 'penalty', and not a valid exercise which has numerous benefits.

Find the stuff that theyre interested in doing. Do it. If they dont wanna kick mitts, take them for a run around the hall. Run until they wanna fall over. Then do some punching with their less exhausted arms. Get them to do as many pushups as they can, and make a competition out of it to see who can do the most, then reward them. Rewarding them may make some others want to be rewarded. Theres countless ways of doing this without making them resent you and without feeding their not wanting to be there. If they wanted to be there, theyd be willing learners. Make sense?

Also, people cant chatter if theyre out of breath.

Everything he said, and nothing he said. Each kid is likely to be different, and have different mixed traits you have mentioned. You have to find what motivates each most. Once they are motivated in one area, another can be brought to bear. It can take a very high toll on a teacher. You probably have a greater learning curve ahead of you the the kids. No easy answer, but a lot of good suggestions from Cyriacus. I hope you get more.

 

[chinto]

every kid is different.. taking a belt should be only for the very most egregious offenses.. burp-pees and push ups are for the one who time and time again does not do what they are supposed to be doing, and should be handed out sparingly... the big secret is to vary what your doing enough that they are not constantly bored. that is the hard part. and how long their attention span is varies from child to child and with age... but a good one is to point out that the next form up is more fun, and we can quit doing this one if we get through it and things.

 

[Aiki Lee]

Personally, I believe it's a bad idea to treat exercise as a form of punishment. I believe it will make kids view exercise as something negative instead of something that's positive.

For the chatterbox, I believe a lot of kids like to be social and it's okay for that occur as long as it's limited to some degree. If it's extreme, then go with one of the above posters ideas and run them ragged so that they're huffing and puffing and I'm not able to talk.

For the show off, correct their problems in public. It's not to humiliate them, but to let them know that everyone can still work on improvement.

For the whiner, get rid of him. He'll likely drag down the others, he doesn't want to be there, he is not ready for martial arts training it's probably time for him to go.

 

[Prostar]

Kids or adults, when the chatter got to be too much, I stood in the center of the room and said, in a voice loud enough to be heard, "three, two,"-you never wanted me to get to "one" because it was always followed with " hundred side kicks...for the room".

As they worked their way through the kicks I explained why they were doing those kicks. You can bet that the next time they heard me saying, "three, two," people started shushing the noisy ones.

This way, I figured that I gave them a fair chance to knock it off, not to mention the peer pressure is priceless.

 

[lavender]

1st... love your avatar chinto! Yay B5!


When I say assistant, I mean there is also a teacher. He is the one who decides what each class does. It's not my call to switch activities. From the responses I've seen so far, there isn't a lot I can do except what I've been doing.
When I mention being louder, there is truth in that. I am usually too quiet and sometimes they simply don't hear me. I don't mean yelling in their faces or anything extreme like that.
My "helpful face" may really be too nice, too friendly, too quick to humor, to use as much as I do. The ones that were there when I started are either getting used to my presence or they are treating me like someone closer to their own age. Not sure which, and if that habitual expression has anything to do with it.

What do you think about enlisting some of the older ones. There are 2 older girls in the hardest class (for me) that chatter a lot and I think the younger ones are seeing that and think they can too. It's just an idea and I don't know specifically what I would do. Maybe have a private talk with them about leading by example? It's something they say at the end of class. Teacher asks, "how do we lead," and they reply, "by example, sir." Maybe they don't see that it doesn't matter if they intend to be leading because the younger ones may still be modeling their own behavior on what they see the big kids doing. Leading can happen regardless of intent to be doing it or not.

Maybe there is something I could change about my example? Maybe I'm off-base because: When being a drill partner with the odd one out student, just performing like the difficult student should be is not enough. Hmmm...suggest a partner switch and go with the less disciplined student, then I would be in their line of sight and can give direct feedback? What kinds of behavior on my part could hindering my goal of assisting?

The newest 'difficult' students are siblings and English is their second language. I could learn some commands in Arabic That is unexpected, might get their attention, and maybe a teensy bit more respect. Is there a way that could backfire? Except, of course, having the word wrong, or if I use the wrong dialect.

Taking a belt is temporary. When I've seen it done they always get it back at the end of class.
Sending them out of the room of course I wouldn't do that if they didn't want to be there. Maybe for the ones that enjoy tkd and playing too much with classmates but it gets out of hand.
What is patronizing about not getting to play a game at the end of class? On Fridays, with the turtles, and sometimes the beginner classes there is a game the last 5 minutes and everyone likes to play. I guess that would be a last resort because it is good to end on an upbeat note. The closest I saw a student be to not getting to play was a moment before the game he was told, "ok since you started listening you can join us." If it was all sour and strict fewer would be interested in going.

I asked today's instructor what I can do to get them to listen to me more. The first thing he said was to speak louder. The other thing was stand in front or walk nearby with my hands behind my back, he does that and the chatters get quieter (sssort of). That doesn't work as well for me (a: I don't have a black belt and b: I don't have the presence...being female and looking young and not having flashy moves).

I try to encourage. Like when I make a correction and they obviously try I say 'Yes!' or 'Better!' Or if they seem honest about something being difficult I say, "just let us see that you are trying and that is enough." And upon seeing an honest try, "good" or, "yes, like that." Sometimes I stay with them and coach, "keep it up....doing good.....almost done....3....2....1....Good!" Then high-5. Nearly everyone likes high-5's.

I forgot another type: the slacker. They stop trying when they think no one is looking. Gothcha! Mwa-haha I am the eyes in the back of the teacher's head when he isn't facing the mirror

Some of it will come in time, I guess. It's not like I can have anyone analyze recordings of my assisting, point out how I could have been more effective with those kids in situation z, and learn by watching and catching myself on tape. I'm a better visual learner that way. I also wish there were more classes in a day at each level. I do better with a sort of learning binge, focusing on things for longer stretches. There is definitely a learning curve here. I know many of them may not even be here 3 or 6 months or a year from now. Some will, some won't, but I hope I learn from the experience while they are here.


Now what about gaining respect from different age groups, like:
3-6 years
7-12
13-15

Suggestions for helpful resources? Even non-MA ones? Or an MA site specifically about teaching? My searches for something online haven't amounted to anything, I get mostly results about choosing a school or choosing an instructor.
My experience with kids is limited, although I always wanted a little brother or sister. Looks like now I have dozens of both.