Assaults on Photographers and Videographers continue to rise.

Bob Hubbard

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Pennsylvania EMT Smacks Reporter's Camera At House Fire Scene
As a two-story home was going up in flames, a member of an EMT ambulance crew ordered a news videographer away from the scene, smacking the camera in his hand.
The EMT, who has been identified as Tameca VanBergen of the Coudersport Volunteer Ambulance Association, proved she is clueless when it comes to basic First Amendment law.
http://www.pixiq.com/article/pennsylvania-emt-smacks-reporters-camera-at-house-fire-scene
http://coudynews.com/news/video-dr-...port-ambulance-crew-member-assaults-reporter/

Coudersport is probably the scariest place I've ever been too. Home to the disgraced cable company Adelphia. Right out of Deliverance. My ex and I drove down some years back. Stopped at the local McD. Conversations stopped, heads turned, it was like "There's a stranger amung us" hick level. There are something like -10- "chamber of commerce' signs listing a gabzillion churches as you enter town. Scary scary scary place.

Hawaii Police Arrest And Rough Up Blogger For Photographing Cat Fight
Damon Tucker, a popular blogger in Hawaii, was roughed up and arrested this weekend for taking photos of two girls fighting outside a nightclub. Hawaii County police charged him with "obstruction of government operations," which seems to be a trend lately. And, of course, they seized his iPhone as "evidence," which is becoming even more of an annoying trend.
http://www.pixiq.com/article/hawaii-police-arrest-and-rough-up-man-for-photographing-fight

I guess "Book Him Dan o'" is now "***** Slap him DanO".

Muslim Woman Punches Photographer Claiming He Violated Her Religion
Claiming that her religious rights had been violated, a Muslim woman punched a man in the face after he had photographed her on a busy Toronto intersection.[/h]The photographer was David Menzies, a popular columnist in Canada who mostly writes about cars.
He said he was with his nine-year-old son testing out a new camera in Yonge-Dundas Square, a bustling, neon-saturated intersection known as Torontos Times Square, when she became enraged.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/02/yonge-dundas-smackdown#disqus_thread
http://www.pixiq.com/article/muslim-woman-punches-photographer

A few years back I was hanging out on this same section of street. There was a big sci-fi con going on. A 7 foot tall Chewbacca walked by, no one blinked. Half dozen hot, and I mean hot asian gals wandered by in little Sailor Fuku's (Google it), no one blinked. To say 'weird' is normal here, is an understatement.


There are dozens of recent stories about photographers being assaulted, all for doing a totally legal action, photographing in public. More disturbing is the trend that many of those doing the assaults are law enforcement, fire, rescue or in some cases sitting politicians. While some communities work to educate and inform their public servants, such as Miami who recently put out updated "rules of conduct" for their police, others seek to circumvent photographers legal and Constitutionally protected rights by abusing existing laws and simply looking the other way when cases are pushed.

With the vast number of cameras at the average persons hands (most cell phones have them, pocket video cams are dirt cheap, and most tablets have multiple cams), the power of the public to catch public servants in the act of wrong doing and spread it around continues to grow daily.

The question is, will the public servants adopt and learn to play nice, or will they, much like the music industry, cling to a failing policy trying to protect power they lost a long time ago?
 
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Bob Hubbard

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Apparently the American front continues to expand.

Police training in Long Beach California apparently includes classes in art history, appreciation and theory, allowing the average patrolman to be a qualified judge and critic now.
the Long Beach (California) Police Chief acknowledging that his officers are trained to detain photographers who are taking pictures “with no apparent esthetic value,” according to the Long Beach Post.
http://www.pixiq.com/article/long-beach-police-trained-to-detain-photographers

Police Chief Jim McDonnell has confirmed that detaining photographers for taking pictures "with no apparent esthetic value" is within Long Beach Police Department policy.

"If an officer sees someone taking pictures of something like a refinery," says McDonnell, "it is incumbent upon the officer to make contact with the individual." McDonnell went on to say that whether said contact becomes detainment depends on the circumstances the officer encounters.

McDonnell says that while there is no police training specific to determining whether a photographer's subject has "apparent esthetic value," officers make such judgments "based on their overall training and experience" and will generally approach photographers not engaging in "regular tourist behavior."

Oh wait, they haven't got any such training, so they will as always, "Guess". I wonder if they can do that when determining if I ran a red light too?

"I may not know art, but I know what I like, and I don't like that so you must be a criminal. Maybe not, but lets go down town, we can break your camera, erase your film, maybe even drop you a few times while we sort this all out. You know, so those terrorists who hate freedom don't win."


Of course, an entire police department wouldn't target photographers to cover up the screw up of one of their own.

[h=2]Houston Police Threaten To Arrest Photographers To Protect Their Own[/h]Oh wait.
With a blood-alcohol content of more than twice the legal limit and several open containers of booze in his truck, Houston Police Sergeant Ruben Trejo was on his way to work when he crashed into a school bus last April.
While it became immediately obvious he was drunk, his fellow officers responding to the accident did their best to cover up for him, including threatening to arrest witnesses who tried photographing the open containers in his truck.

2 questions.

1 - Is it common for LEO's to report to work totally **** faced?

2 - Isn't that a crime if a civilian does it?

Here is what the Houston Chronicle wrote two weeks later.
A veteran Houston police officer with a blood-alcohol content of .205 — more than twice the legal limit — was driving to work when he collided with a private school bus this month, authorities said.

I'm not up on BAC. Is a .205 high?

Of course, falsifying the report to cover up the drunk ********s actions would require destroying any ugly evidence. Thankfully the Houston PD hasn't gotten to the point of taking all the witnesses out behind the barn and "disappearing" them. Yet.

Then there are these:

Another Photographer Detained in Southern California

For the second time in a month, police in Long Beach, California detained a photographer for taking pictures in public.
And now it is becoming apparent that they are probably following guidelines issued by the Los Angeles Police Department that explicitly states that people taking photos are to be viewed as suspicious.
According to page 40 of the LAPD’s “Suspicious Activity Report,” published in June 2008:
Takes pictures or video footage (with no apparent esthetic value, i.e., camera angles, security equipment, security personnel, traffic lights, building entrances, etc.).

This gives police the green light to detain photographers who are doing nothing but taking photos.

Again, that extensive art training that California LEO's apparently get, instead of a class in the 1st Amendment. Well, at least the photographers get nice settlements after a year of 2 of legal issues to help pay for their moving out of town to avoid the almost guaranteed retaliatory policing, once the local PD loses the lawsuit.
[h=2]Massachusetts Police Arrest Another Man On Wiretapping Charges[/h]
A Massachusetts man is facing five years in prison after secretly recording an argument between himself and a police officer who had pulled him over for a traffic infraction. Robert E. Mansfield was charged with felony wiretapping after he walked into the police station asking police to rescind the citation for having an obstructed license plate because of a tinted cover. At some point during his [...]
[h=2]Woman Who Videotaped Cop Beating May Face Wiretapping Charge[/h]
A Massachusetts cop who was caught on video helping beat a man on the side of the road is now claiming his rights were violated when the videographer recorded him without permission. Springfield police officer Michael Sedergren – who was suspended for 45 days for the beating incident – filed a complaint of felony wiretapping against the woman last month. The issue will be heard in [...]


Seems that a growing number of law enforcement agencies are taking issue with being photographed and videotaped. But surely there is no need.

After all, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't have a problem with smiling for the camera.
Like the thousands on poles,walls and CCTV networks that pipe directly to the local PD.





If it seems I'm getting more and more critical of these issues, it is because I am. The Police are supposed to be a positive force. Wantonly violating my rights, disrupting my participation in -legal and lawful- activities on whims, is not good policing. A knowledge of the law would be nice, one that a number of PD's across the US seem to lack.

Thankfully, it's not totally bleak. Some departments are trying to educate their forces on how to handle a camera-happy society.
The Miami PD, still smarting after losing numerous lawsuits by wrongfully and unlawfully detained photographers, finally issued instructions to it's force. Time will tell if this was serious, or just a way to make photographers even richer when they win future lawsuits for unlawful orders and detainments.
 
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Seattle Police Department issues new policy regarding photographers

The newly issued policy also states that police are not allowed to confiscate a person’s camera for video evidence “without cause or court order,” according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:
The new policy clearly reminds officers that bystanders have a right to watch or film officers making an arrest, as long as they don’t interfere or threaten their safety, said Kathryn Olson, civilian director of the department’s Office of Professional Accountability, which investigates allegations of police misconduct.
…
The policy is intended to clarify when bystanders’ behavior is considered threatening or unlawful, such as when they move too close or step into a scene, Olson said.
It also emphasizes that police can’t simply seize someone’s camera for video evidence without cause or court order and suggests alternative means of negotiating with the witness.


NFTA Creating Photo Policy After Viral Video Exposed Threatening Cop
The Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority is creating a policy outlining how officers should deal with citizens who record them in public.

Raid on Atlanta Gay Bar Leads to Policy Changes on Photographing Police
Grossman, who is also a photographer, was sure to include a provision that forbids police from preventing citizens from photographing them in public.

  • Requires the revocation or amendment of several unconstitutional Atlanta Police Department policies regarding search, seizure, and arrest;
  • Requires Atlanta police officers to wear clearly visible nametags and to identify themselves upon request;
  • Prohibits Atlanta police officers from interfering with the public’s right to take photographs and make video and audio recordings of police activity;
  • Requires Atlanta police officers to document certain warrantless ID checks, detentions, frisks, and searches;
  • Requires the City of Atlanta to conduct mandatory in-person training of all police officers every two years regarding Fourth Amendment law and the safe use of firearms;
  • Requires the Atlanta Police Department to rule on citizen complaints of police misconduct within 180 days (many of these these investigations previously remained open for years);
  • Requires the Atlanta Police Department to conduct an investigation which should lead to discipline of officers for specific types of misconduct and for untruthfulness, including lies told under oath in various proceedings.
Grossman said the city council will consider adapting these reforms as law. And he believes other cities should enact similar laws.


Miami Beach Police Issue Policy On Dealing With Photographers And Videographers
A. The Department recognizes that the taking of photographs and/or videos by private citizens and media personnel is permitted within areas open to general public access and occupancy.
B. A civilian may video record or photograph a police employee’s activities as long as they:
1. Remain at a reasonable distance;
2. Do not interfere with the employee’s duties and responsibilities;
3. Do not create a safety concern for the employee, person detained, or other persons.
*****
X. Prohibited Actions
A. Employees shall not order or participate in the destruction of portable video and photo recording devices.
B. Employees shall not order or participate in the erasure, deletion or destruction of digital, analog or film evidence.
C. Employees shall not impede a person’s right to photograph or video record an event unless that person’s actions:
1. Endanger the safety of the public, employees, or property;
2. Interfere with an active crime scene; or
3. Create a reasonable safety concern.


Of course, just because a PD says they have a policy, doesn't mean the officers will follow it.

Portland Oregon cops for example have been ignoring their own policy on photographers for over 10 years!
Portland cops ignore laws and policy while shattering Constitution
http://www.pixiq.com/article/portland-cops-rewrite-laws-and-policy-while-shattering-constitution
Portland police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schmautz said he believes the public doesn’t have a right to record officers’ conversations – on or off the job – without their consent.
The problem is, the Portland Police Bureau already have such a policy in place that is not even 20 years old, even though nobody on the force seems to have a clue about it.
In 1991, then-police chief Tom Potter issued a training bulletin stating that the public had the right to record video and audio of police arresting suspects in a public place. Woboril, Schmautz and Police Chief Rosie Sizer weren’t aware of the bulletin, but Tabor’s attorney, Haile, dug up it up in his research.
Haile said he wants the bureau to specify that police stops — not just arrests — can be recorded. He also wants the policy put in the bureau’s policy and procedures manual, so it won’t be forgotten.



Do police have the right to confiscate your camera?
http://www.pixiq.com/article/do-police-have-the-right-to-confiscate-your-cameraBut the truth is, police had no legal right to confiscate a single camera.


“Cops may be entitled to ask for people’s names and addresses and may even go as far as subpoenaing the video tape, but as far as confiscating the camera on the spot, no,” said Marc Randazza, A First Amendment attorney based out of Florida and a Photography is Not a Crime reader.


Bert P. Krages II, the Oregon attorney who drafted the widely distributed The Photographer’s Rights guide, responded to my inquiry with the following e-mail message:
“In general, police cannot confiscate cameras or media without some sort of court order. One exception is when a camera is actually being used in the commission of crime (e.g., child pornography, counterfeiting, upskirting).”
 

Stealthy

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How about a course on how to handle $10,000+ worth of photographic equipment and treat it like it is your own.

I'm guessing you don't let "just anyone" handle your gear Bob, how would you feel seeing it thrown into the boot of a patrol car without the protective case?
 
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Bob Hubbard

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I'd be a bit upset, to say the least. These days most of my urban shooting is videoed from afar as well with the feed immediately uploaded. Even if the recorder is detained and their equipment stolen by an unlawful action, the footage is available for later posting to youtube and use by an attorney so that the taxpayers of NY will buy me that Hassleblad. I'm also looking into installing a dashcam with 4 way feed (front, rear, both sides). Mini-mac hack for a prius hooked to 4 USB webcams ;)
 

MA-Caver

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I'd be a bit upset, to say the least. These days most of my urban shooting is videoed from afar as well with the feed immediately uploaded. Even if the recorder is detained and their equipment stolen by an unlawful action, the footage is available for later posting to youtube and use by an attorney so that the taxpayers of NY will buy me that Hassleblad. I'm also looking into installing a dashcam with 4 way feed (front, rear, both sides). Mini-mac hack for a prius hooked to 4 USB webcams ;)
I'm kinda glad that it's easy to quickly take out the card in the camera as opposed to rewinding a 1/2 shot roll of film and trying to stash that... should that ever be the need to do so. Remember also that it was a Hassleblad 8mm still camera :lol:

Gee wonders if you dare to take portraits of well known officers (in their respective areas) for a department and then one of them snaps and says "HEY! No pictures!" ... (j/k)

Wonders also if someday some company will make long range lenses for the small cameras out today.

Put a cam in the trunk of the car as well, turned on whenever it's opened.
 
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Some updates on the War against Photographers
PINAC reports 4/1-4/14/2013

Louisiana Cops Arrest Man for Video Recording Them in Public
Police in Louisiana continued to reveal that gangster cop attitude that has become so visible in this country thanks to the advent of online videos.
It was only a few years ago that we were forced to take the word of police on the facts that lead up to an arrest.
Now were seeing a systematic thug-like attitude within the police ranks throughout almost every law enforcement agency in the country because more and more citizens are asserting their right to record in public.

North Carolina Woman Arrested for Video Recording Cops From Front Yard Wins Settlement
Like several cases we have seen over the years, North Carolina resident Felicia Gibson was arrested for video recording a traffic stop from her front yard.
Salisbury Police Sgt. Mark Hunter even went as far as chasing Gibson inside her home where he arrested her for resisting arrest.
And when Gibson took the case to trial, Judge Beth Dixon further pissed on the Constitution by convicting her.

San Diego Police Attack and Arrest Man Video Recording Them, Claiming Phone Could be a Weapon (Updated)
San Diego police slapped a cell phone camera out of a mans hands Saturday, claiming it could be a weapon, before pouncing on him and handcuffing him, lacerating his chin in the process.
Adam Pringle ended up jailed overnight on charges of obstruction because he refused to hand the phone over when the cop ordered him to do so.

Four Nebraska Cops Fired After Caught on Camera Chasing Man into Home to Steal Camera
Four Nebraska cops were fired over an incident in which they tried their best to conceal, including beating a man and chasing his brother into a home to steal his camera all while unknowingly being recorded by another citizen from an upstairs window.

And another three officers were placed on leave and an additional officer was reassigned, according to the Associated Press.

California Photojournalist Detained for Photographing Naval School From Public Street
A photojournalist was illegally detained after he photographed the entrance to a naval school from a public street in California this week.
Nic Coury, who shoots for the Monterey County Weekly, said he was on assignment to photograph the Naval Postgraduate School when he was ordered inside the guardhouse and told it was a national security issue to photograph the school.

Montreal Police Arrest Woman Over Instagram Photo
Despite their guns, badges, batons, Tasers, handcuffs and pepper spray canisters, police continue to prove they are terrified of free expression this time going as far as arresting a woman over an Instagram photo that sent shivers down the spine of a panic-stricken police commander in Canada.

Jennifer Pawluck, a bespectacled 20-year-old artist, said she had no idea who Montreal Police Commander Ian Lafreniere was when she photographed a graffiti portrait of him with a bullet in his head in her neighborhood last month, nor did she know who drew the portrait.



March 2013

California Parking Enforcement Officer Snatches Camera From Man Recording Him Issuing Tickets
A California parking enforcement officer issuing tickets walked up to a man video recording him Wednesday and snatched his camera, telling him to get that camera out of my face. Nevada City parking enforcement officer Jack Ward then walked

Teenage Railfan Sues Over Unlawful Arrest (and Other Rail News, Including Metrorail Update)
Gregory Grice was 16-years-old, but smart enough to carry a copy of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority when he ventured to a New York train station to take some photos in 2011. But that didnt stop police from arresting him

Arkansas Sheriffs Deputy Arrests Man for Video Recording, then Claims he Lost Phone
Arkansas deputies are refusing to return a mans iPhone after they arrested him for video recording them with it, even though his case was dismissed last month. Sebastian County Sheriffs deputy Bryan Fuller, who made the arrest, claims he

Nebraska Police Chase Down Man Video Recording Their Abuse While Second Man Video Records It All
Omaha police displayed an unbridled street gang brazenness when they chased a man who was video recording them abusing his brother into a private home, confiscating his phone and arresting him to ensure their actions would never see the

North Carolina Deputy Rehired Days After Resigning Over Road Rage Incident
The North Carolina deputy who was forced to resign this week after committing an act of road rage that was caught on video was rehired a few days later, proving that the Onslow County Sheriffs Office was merely trying

Police from Hialeah, City of Progress, Stealing Cameras from Citizens
The Hialeah Police Department has gone on a camera-grabbing, rights-squashing, charge-trumping rampage against citizens in recent weeks without any apparent fear of repercussions, proving to be one of the most power-abusing police departments in Miami-Dade County. And thats saying

Miami-Dade Paramedic Tries to Chase Away Videographer From Helicopter Rescue
A Miami-Dade Fire Rescue Captain named Greg Smart was stupid enough to think a citizen recording with an iPad was a combative bystander. Miami photographer Taylor Hardy was far from combative Thursday, standing across the street from an open

Richmond Cop Attacks Man on Camera for Asking Simple Question
Once again we are treated to a Youtube video of an out-of-control cop physically attacking a non-violent citizen only for the police department to say the incident will be fully reviewed. But the video has been fully reviewed by

Massachusetts Cops Pepper Spray and Arrest Man for Video Recording Them
Massachusetts police pepper sprayed and arrested a man for video recording them after they ordered him to walk away.
Then they spent the next several minutes handcuffing and stuffing him inside a police car while a woman who repeatedly identified herself as an attorney recorded it all.

South Carolina Cops Refuse to Cite Deputy Road Rage Caught on Video (Updated)
An enraged cop was caught on video committing an act of road rage in a patrol car before fleeing the scene of the accident he had caused on a South Carolina highway. But rest assured, the overwhelming video evidence

Florida Trooper Slaps Camera, Tells Man its Illegal to Video Record her
Its gotten to the point where the Florida Highway Patrol in Jacksonville have been accustomed to Jeff Gray video recording them, which is why most dont bother him when he does. But all it takes is one ignorant cop

Hotheaded Pittsburgh Cop Tases Man as he Walks Away
A hotheaded Pittsburgh police officer with a Joe Pesci accent was caught on video tasering a man who was already walking away after being ordered to do so. The irony of the video is that before the tasering, another

Florida Man Arrested for Recording Himself Flipping Over Sitting Deputies
A Florida man who video records himself playing pranks on various members of the public is known to take some risky chances, including giving strangers wedgies and kisses, which his followers love. However, when Charles Ross decided to run up

NYPD Cop Arrests Man for Video Recording him, Claiming he Created Dangerous Situation
A New York City cop named Delgado was shaking down a citizen when he noticed another citizen video recording him, so he gave him the old, do me a favor, put the camera down routine to which the man

University of Oregon Law Professor Snatches Camera from Student Protester (Updated)
A University of Oregon law professor was in a heated argument with a group of students protesting against Israeli and American immigration policies when he snatched a cell phone camera from a woman, placing it in his back pocket where

Joe Biden Staffer Orders College Journalist to Delete Photo
A Joe Biden staff member ordered a student journalist to delete his photos in a university-sponsored event at a Maryland college, prompting the vice presidents press secretary to issue an apology. But only after dean of the journalism program

Miami Beach Police Internal Affairs Contacts Me About Stupid Cop Statements Caught on Video
Just over a month ago, public records activists Joel and Robert Chandler drove down to Miami to test out local government agencies knowledge of public records laws. As I did in November, I tagged along with my video camera

Miami-Dade County Needs to Reconsider Contract with 50 State Security
Contrary to statements from a Miami-Dade Transit spokesperson, passengers were not complaining about an elderly woman singing gospel music before she was tossed off the Metrorail by a 50 State security guard last month. In fact, the guard who

South Florida Cops Confiscate Camera and Delete Footage, Claiming They Feared it was a Gun
A South Florida cop said he was in fear for his life when he snatched a mans camera from his hand on Tuesday, handing it over to a second cop who deleted the video that had just been recorded.

Miami-Dade Metrorail Security Guard Drags Elderly Woman off Train for Singing Gospel Hymns
Miami-Dade Metrorail security guards have gotten so aggressive, that even the local media has taken notice, reporting on a recent incident in which an 82-year-old woman was dragged off the train for singing Gospel hymns. But true to its

Jacksonville Deputy Detains Man for Video Recording After Acknowledging No Crime was Committed
Jeff Gray aka HONORYOUROATH continued to test North Florida authorities on their knowledge on basic photography laws this week, almost landing himself in jail. Not that he broke any law for even the deputy admitted he was completely within his

USDOJ Once Again Weighs in on Photographers Rights Issue
For the second time since last year, the U.S. Department of Justice has weighed in on a federal lawsuit involving a photographer wrongly arrested for recording cops, urging the judge to deny qualified immunity to the arresting officers. The

Gresham Police Continue to Harass, Intimidate and Arrest Citizens with Cameras
Two weeks after a Gresham police officer snatched a camera phone from a woman recording him, another Gresham police officer arrested a woman for recording him before turning on a man who happened to be recording that arrest. This
 

ballen0351

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Where are all the stories of cops that were recorded and didn't assault anyone? Oh wait that doesn't fit your "War on photographer" theme.
 

arnisador

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Where are all the stories of cops that were recorded and didn't assault anyone? Oh wait that doesn't fit your "War on photographer" theme.

I love it. I'll say this, ballen0351, you're consistent--the same logic used with guns. If most people aren't abusing photographers, there isn't a problem. I don't doubt at all that you're right: It's a negligible percentage of people photographing cops who are harassed, statistically speaking--so, there's no issue at all! Why do people keep harping on something that is so rare among all instances of photos/videos being taken! It's madness, I tell you, madness!

:D

:popcorn:
 

ballen0351

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I love it. I'll say this, ballen0351, you're consistent--the same logic used with guns. If most people aren't abusing photographers, there isn't a problem. I don't doubt at all that you're right: It's a negligible percentage of people photographing cops who are harassed, statistically speaking--so, there's no issue at all! Why do people keep harping on something that is so rare among all instances of photos/videos being taken! It's madness, I tell you, madness!

:D

:popcorn:
Didnt say there wasn't a problem one case of trampling on someone's rights is one too many but damn he makes it seem like every tine someone thinks of taking a picture 30 swat ninjas decend from the heavens and punch you in the face. I get photographed almost every day. There are some neighborhoods as soon as they see a cop the phones come out just in case. We get it there are bad cops out there but its the slim minority.
 
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Where are all the stories of cops that were recorded and didn't assault anyone? Oh wait that doesn't fit your "War on photographer" theme.

I love it. I'll say this, ballen0351, you're consistent--the same logic used with guns. If most people aren't abusing photographers, there isn't a problem. I don't doubt at all that you're right: It's a negligible percentage of people photographing cops who are harassed, statistically speaking--so, there's no issue at all! Why do people keep harping on something that is so rare among all instances of photos/videos being taken! It's madness, I tell you, madness!


How many police officers are employed in the United states?
There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states


There are 29 stories posted above. A few don't relate to cops, at least 1 is an update to an earlier story. Let's say that in the above, 25 cops are involved.

25 / 800,000 = 0.00003

As Arni himself said : "It's a negligible percentage of people photographing cops who are harassed, statistically speaking--so, there's no issue at all! Why do people keep harping on something that is so rare among all instances of photos/videos being taken! It's madness, I tell you, madness!"



There's a point here. Anyone want to make a guess what my point really is?

Anyone?

:popcorn:
 

ballen0351

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Like I said Bob one time is one time too many but your numbers are still wrong you would have to use the number of times cops are recoreded not the total number of cops in the US. I get recorded daily. I got recorded just yesterday yelling at someone to move back away from us. Were doing a felony car stop and some dill weed with an I Phone walks up filming and is standing at the truck of my car. So now I need to turn my attention away from the suspect to tell this guy to back out of the line of fire for his own good and he wants to tell me he's legally allowed to film me. I didn't yell at the other folks filming across the street but this guy will post it on you tube and then you will post an article about me stepping on this guys rights because I told him to move or I was going to arrest him.


Two sides to every story and sorry but sometimes the cops are not ALWAYS the ones in the wrong.

PS if anyone finds the clip on you tube post it I can't find it. I'll be the handsome cop yelling at the d bag.
 

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The issue is that sometimes things ARE taken out of context. Yelling at someone for being too close to the scene, which endangers the citizen and police, is well within not only your rights but your RESPONSIBILITY as a police officer.

Although I believe as well that video evidence of an official stepping well outside the bounds of acceptable conduct is an important tool in a citizen protecting themselves and others from any official who is in actuality breaking the law, I believe as well that putting yourself in harm's way to get said video is dangerous to more than just yourself and should be discouraged. People need to use their heads more often.

Also I'm suspicious of any video that doesn't show the full story, or close to it. A video just showing a cop yelling with no preceeding evidence to show there IS no reason has likely been cut and edited to paint the officer in a bad light. That doesn't mean there aren't bad cops, I've seen full videos of plenty of 'em. But there are some videos, stories and personal experiences with just as many good ones. I'm just not so quick to condemn anyone anymore without compelling evidence.


I do think that there IS a growing problem with physical violence and legal BS where photographers are concerned though. I've personally seen it. Just saying it isn't black and white. There IS BS on both sides. Assaulting a guy for videotaping is definitely wrong and disciplinary action should be taken if there IS enough evidence to back up accusations. But the number of false accusations and edited BS video is also out there.
 

Drasken

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How many police officers are employed in the United states?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states


There are 29 stories posted above. A few don't relate to cops, at least 1 is an update to an earlier story. Let's say that in the above, 25 cops are involved.

25 / 800,000 = 0.00003

As Arni himself said : "It's a negligible percentage of people photographing cops who are harassed, statistically speaking--so, there's no issue at all! Why do people keep harping on something that is so rare among all instances of photos/videos being taken! It's madness, I tell you, madness!"



There's a point here. Anyone want to make a guess what my point really is?

Anyone?

:popcorn:

That it's the same point we're trying to get through to Arni and many other anti gun people?

Am I right? Do I win a cookie?
 
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Bob Hubbard

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If 25 incorrect cops / 800,000 cops is "a negligible percentage", then what is 70/313,000,000?

:)

And here's the point that's being missed:
the small number of cases here of LEO's not understanding or caring about peoples rights, with it taking days,in a few cases weeks, before reports come in, shows clearly that this isn't a big problem.

So, really, where is the problem?

;)

:popcorn:
 

arnisador

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That it's the same point we're trying to get through to Arni and many other anti gun people?

That it's OK for cops to beat up photographers as long as they don't beat up too many of them? And we shouldn't do anything about it because drunk drivers are still drowning in swimming pools?
 

Drasken

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That it's OK for cops to beat up photographers as long as they don't beat up too many of them? And we shouldn't do anything about it because drunk drivers are still drowning in swimming pools?

You forgot that drugs are assaulting women because of subliminal messages being beamed into their heads from mega ultra Hitler.

But in all seriousness this is not ok. But statistically insignifigant. Deal with it on a case by case basis. LEO go through enough stress and danger protecting us. For such an insignifigant number you would make it harder on ALL of them to do their jobs rather than punish the few bad cops that are doing obviously bad things?
 

arnisador

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But statistically insignifigant.

People keep using that term. They're using it incorrectly, and so it'd be helpful if someone would define what it means in this context. It isn't worth addressing an issue if it's prevalence is less than blank? Is that it?


Deal with it on a case by case basis. LEO go through enough stress and danger protecting us. For such an insignifigant number you would make it harder on ALL of them to do their jobs

Seriously? I mean, this isn't really my issue, but I'm also on the anti- side where cops beating people for no reason is concerned.
 
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Bob Hubbard

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People keep using that term. They're using it incorrectly, and so it'd be helpful if someone would define what it means in this context. It isn't worth addressing an issue if it's prevalence is less than blank? Is that it?

You might be right. Of course, you could reply to me directly, and put that PHD of yours to actual use here. But, that's ok.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance long winded read, real boring, yadda yada, and probably means you're right and I'm incorrect when I say it's "Statistically insignificant".

So tell us Professor.

What is our Confidence, what is the Signal to Noise ratio, and what is the sample size, in the above referenced situation? Do we need to wait until Elder stops by?

Nah.

Let me use a word properly. It's ok. I asked Mr. Webster.

[h=2]Definition of INSIGNIFICANT[/h] : not significant: as
a : lacking meaning or import
b : not worth considering : unimportant
c : lacking weight, position, or influence : contemptible
d : small in size, quantity, or number

The number of cases of negative LEO-Photographer interactions are INSIGNIFICANT when weighted against the following:
Daily Interactions between LEOs and General Public
Daily Interactions between LEOs and Photographers
Daily Interactions between LEOs and people with cameras
Total # of LEO's.
Total # of Photographers.


Seriously? I mean, this isn't really my issue, but I'm also on the anti- side where cops beating people for no reason is concerned.

So lets turn this around. There's maybe 200-300 of these stories a year that crop up, out of millions of interactions, involving almost 1M cops. With numbers that low, other than making sure that all departments are aware of Federal regs and the publics rights, and corrective actions when errors do occur, what more can be done to further reduce these situations?
 
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