Article by Mr. Will Tracy

[Big Pat]

Master Ted Sumner has posted an interesting article by Mr. Will Tracy entitled "The Rise of American Kenpo-As I saw it" {revised 1/17/98}. Please go to www.sanjosekenpo.com under the heading of articles. Interesting to read a different perspective of things.

EKP RIP

Big Pat :asian:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

First of all, i have to say this forum looks nice. I like it very much. Keep up the good work.

After I read Tracy's article, I'm totally lost and confused. I also don't know what American Kenpo is all about anymore.

Hopefully, somebody in AK express their opinions about this article.

I see some AK people express their opinion in kenponet site. Perhaps, seeing a few here

 

[Touch Of Death]

First of all, i have to say this forum looks nice. I like it very much. Keep up the good work.

After I read Tracy's article, I'm totally lost and confused. I also don't know what American Kenpo is all about anymore.

Hopefully, somebody in AK express their opinions about this article.

I see some AK people express their opinion in kenponet site. Perhaps, seeing a few here

What was it that confused you? The Tracy system has always claimed more techs than Ikka. Return motion is half your art, not reverse motion. Should I inform my instructor that in fact Ed parker quit teaching in 1980 so all that time he spent with him after that was for not?
Ed Parker was into Master key motion and it is clear this guy prefers to have a thousand keys on his chain. He's a collector. In the End Mr, Parker didn't have time for collectors; because , he had a whole slew of people to impart the basic data. He wanted people whom challanged his beliefs, or could greatly expand upon his ideas. The techs are all variations of eachother for gods sake.
Sean

 

[Rob Broad]

Wasn't Will Tracy, the Tracy who was head of the Church of Sex with is wife. I read his article and tried hard to look at it objectively, but having studied Tracy's and EPAK, I think he is way off.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Wasn't Will Tracy, the Tracy who was head of the Church of Sex with is wife. I read his article and tried hard to look at it objectively, but having studied Tracy's and EPAK, I think he is way off.

Right you are Mr. Broad! I am in agreement with you..... although there may be a shread or 2 of some truth.... most is garbage. This article surfaced some time ago and now it seems to have peaked his head up once again..... things must not be going well for them......

:asian:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Right you are Mr. Broad! I am in agreement with you..... although there may be a shread or 2 of some truth.... most is garbage. This article surfaced some time ago and now it seems to have peaked his head up once again..... things must not be going well for them......

:asian:

i thought this is the saddest in the history of american kenpo.

Tracy brothers were Ed Parker's students. Having publicly to say something like this to our death teacher is no good.

even though we disagree with our teacher or have different opinions with other people in organization, we should go ALL the WAY like this.

the past is past.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet! Take everything with a grain of salt. And question your assumptions about history.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A copy of Ed Parkers signed Black Belt cert is available at a few places...heres 1
http://www.canamma.com/kirk

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet! Take everything with a grain of salt. And question your assumptions about history.

this is certainly a good advise

 

[Goldendragon7]

Tracy brothers were Ed Parker's students. Having publicly to say something like this to our dead teacher is no good, even though we disagree with our teacher or have different opinions with other people in organizations. The past is the past.

You are absolutely correct. The Tracy Brothers do have Ed Parker to thank for what he gave them. He did form the base of their Art.

However, credit where credit is due..... Thanks to Tracy's aggressive business vision to establish Kenpo Karate studios all over the country and/or world ..... most of us are here today due to that expansion effort. They play a very important part in American Kenpo's History.

Now as to the quality of material that Ed Parker continually developed and organized up until his passing compared to what the Tracy's had when they left in the 60's is a completely different story. The type of training in the late 50's, 60's, and most of the 70's was much "tougher or physically demanding" for the most part [depending on the instructor] compared to that of the 80's and beyond. This is the era {the 80's} of the " technical knowledge explosion" where Ed Parker had "evolved" and was feverishly writing and recording (books, videos, movies etc.) much of what he had learned and wanted to publish this to the public as fast as possible.

Physical training is still an intrigel part of the art just as the technical side, for it takes both to be truly proficient in the Art. As humans however, we are creatures of habit and of comfort zones .... we tend to only do what we were taught and remember during particularly "OUR" era vs. examine the "big picture".

All of us enjoy our ART of KENPO..... the interpretation sometimes is different depending upon our personal experiences, or the influence of our instructors experiences, comfort zones {which we do not like to leave}, era of training, which leads to our depth of understanding of the Art. It has been my experience that the deeper we understand the ART and its history, the more clearly we understanding others view points and positions.

:asian:

 

[John Bishop]

I've seen that certificate on the internet before. Doe's anyone know what the origin of it is? In my kenpo research and talks with people like Mr. Parker, Sijo Emperado, and many Kenpo seniors, the name "International Self Defense Club" has never come up as a school name or association name for Prof. Chow's schools.
Prof. Chow could not read or write, other then his signature. And I have zerox copys of Prof. Chow's signature from certificates and books he gave people. I guess people's signatures can change over the years, but the samples I have don't resemble the signature on this certificate.
I can verify that Sijo Emperado, being Prof. Chow's first black belt, did promote Mr. Parker to 8th degree in recognition of the outstanding contribution he made to the spread of Kenpo in the world.

 

[KenpoDave]

You are absolutely correct. The Tracy Brothers do have Ed Parker to thank for what he gave them. He did form the base of their Art.

However, credit where credit is due

And Al Tracy always speaks very respectfully about Ed Parker in the time that I have known him.

Here is what is being missed in this discussion. The article in question was written by Will Tracy. All the criticism about the article is being addressed to Al Tracy. The Tracy Brothers that are on Ed Parker's tree, the Tracy Brothers that formed Tracy's Kenpo, are Al and Jim Tracy.

According to Will Tracy himself, he has never been a part of Al Tracy's organization, nor is he a supporter of his brother. The following is a quote taken directly from another of Will Tracy's articles...

"I have tried to remain out of the controversy that has sprung up around my brother, Al Tracy. I have no association with him, and do not even talk to him. I certainly am not one of his supporters."

To reference this article in it's entirety, please see www.kenpokarate.com/first_shodan.html

If the people of American Kenpo have a bone to pick about this article, I would suggest that it be picked with the man who wrote it. Not the organization that he has never been a part of, or his brother with whom he does not associate or support.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Al Tracy always speaks very respectfully about Ed Parker in the time that I have known him.

Here is what is being missed in this discussion. The article in question was written by Will Tracy. All the criticism about the article is being addressed to Al Tracy. The Tracy Brothers that are on Ed Parker's tree, the Tracy Brothers that formed Tracy's Kenpo, are Al and Jim Tracy.

According to Will Tracy himself, he has never been a part of Al Tracy's organization, nor is he a supporter of his brother. The following is a quote taken directly from another of Will Tracy's articles...

"I have tried to remain out of the controversy that has sprung up around my brother, Al Tracy. I have no association with him, and do not even talk to him. I certainly am not one of his supporters."

If the people of American Kenpo have a bone to pick about this article, I would suggest that it be picked with the man who wrote it. Not the organization that he has never been a part of, or his brother with whom he does not associate or support.

:asian:

I have no bones to pick as you say..... I am or did not attack Mr. Tracy or the Tracy organization, rather stated fact, which IS complementary.


but... if what you say is true.... then why is this article on AL TRACY'S SITE???????? .... the fact that it IS there only presents itself for controversy and is contrary to what you have stated. If the Tracy brothers do not associate then why post a negative article by a family member that is supposedly distant or as he states "certainly am not one of his supporters".....? Don't you think this is unusual?

:asian:

 

[Seig]

One of the many reasons I left my old instructor and did not go directly to Mr. Tracy was because of their tendency to rewrite history. I have spent a lot of time on the Tracy site, everytime they republish their articles, they have Mr. Parker playing a smaller role in their history. In some regards it's like the child crying foul, and then taking his ball and going somewhere else to play. I find it very saddening. Unfortunately, this is just one extreme of the behavior that has been going on within the Kenpo community. On one hand you have people that either never studied with Mr. Parker or attended a seminar or two, claiming to be his long time personal student and on the other, you have those that were with him a long time disavowing their assosciation. Despite Will Tracy's continuous blather, Mr. Parker gave his brothers something wonderfull and gave the EPAK family something wonderfull. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just treated it like the gifts we were given?

 

[Kenpomachine]

I went to the site to read the article, but I couldn't go passed the first few paragraphs? I don't know Will Tracy's reasons to write in such a disrespectful way. Disgusting

 

[KenpoDave]

but... if what you say is true.... then why is this article on AL TRACY'S SITE???????? .... the fact that it IS there only presents itself for controversy and is contrary to what you have stated. If the Tracy brothers do not associate then why post a negative article by a family member that is supposedly distant or as he states "certainly am not one of his supporters".....? Don't you think this is unusual?

:asian:

The article in question is NOT on Al Tracy's website. I just went thru it again before posting this, and it is not there. It has been posted recently at Ted Sumner's website, but again...THIS ARTICLE IS NOT ON AL TRACY'S WEBSITE.

If I am wrong, please post the link or URL, as I have not found it.

:asian:

 

[CoolKempoDude]

but... if what you say is true.... then why is this article on AL TRACY'S SITE???????? .... the fact that it IS there only presents itself for controversy and is contrary to what you have stated.
:asian:

you have a very good question. Perhaps, this article should be posted at www.willtracy.com/.net/.org.

Tracy kenpo students seem to *agree* with this article after talking to them.

I personally think that this article not only damages the reputation of AK but damages also the reputation of Ed's current students such as golden dragon 7, Doc, larry tatum, and so on.

after reading this article, IT is obviously that Mr Will understands Ed parker better than goldendragon 7, Doc, and other combined.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

It has been posted recently at Ted Sumner's website, but again...THIS ARTICLE IS NOT ON AL TRACY'S WEBSITE.

:asian:

you are correct. It is posted at Ted Summer's web site. Who is Ted summer??

"He is the one who taugh Tracy's son".

don't you see goldendragon 7 post anything so CONTROVERSARY like this one on his web site ?????

NO heh????

 

[Goldendragon7]

The article in question is NOT on Al Tracy's website. I just went thru it again before posting this, and it is not there. It has been posted recently at Ted Sumner's website, but again...THIS ARTICLE IS NOT ON AL TRACY'S WEBSITE.

If I am wrong, please post the link or URL, as I have not found it.

:asian:

Ok, I have not been to the website in quite a while.... which is where I do remember seeing it there at one time. If it has been removed, then my apologies for that "old" reference. :asian:

Obviously, Ted Sumner must have it now and put out a reproduction of the original posting on HIS website.

BTW.. Quick Question then, Who has/does Mr. Sumner study with, and why would HE post this old letter?

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

I personally think that this article not only damages the reputation of AK but damages also the reputation of Ed's current students such as golden dragon 7, Doc, larry tatum, and so on.

Ahahahaaahaahaaaaahaahaha..... you too funny dude..... :uhyeah:

It would take much more than a letter of this sort to damage any of our [those that you mentioned] reputations!! I find it ""unique"" that 14 years after Ed Parker has passed away that some people still try to discredit him, his system or his followers ...... I feel sorry for you if that is all you have to hang on to... the rest of us all have a great Art and we are all moving forward with it.

After reading this article, IT is obviously that Mr Will understands Ed parker better than goldendragon 7, Doc, and other combined.

** giggle ** If you say so......:btg:

:asian: