Are these effective SD skills?

[Edmund BlackAdder]

-Please elaborate. I've watched it several times.

You lack the training to understand.

 

[cfr]

Don't you have to go cuddle with some hot sweaty Gracie wannabe to test those mad UFC skillz of yours?

Curious, have you ever been cuddled? Ever not been able to get someone off of you that you outweigh by 60 lbs, and knowing that if you bite him, he will bit you back from a much better vantage point? As stated several time, Im a middle of the roader between sport and SD, but reading comments like these make me realize how clueless SD purists really are about the sport guys.

 

[RoninPimp]

Ah, the sewer denizen traditional response. You forget your location mudpit trollkin. The details are there, here, on MAP, on EBudo, on BudoSeek, even in that sewer USENET. I can't be bothered to spoon feed it to you.

In fact, some of the answers are in this thread, but you will refuse to acknowledge them as you'll only be happy if you get to beat up an old man (or rather try) so you can proudly bang on your inbred chest on how your mad UFCfu is so great, again.

You lack the training to understand.

-So you refuse to argue your point with evidence? Will you later claim you won this argument too?

 

[Bigshadow]

-Please elaborate. I've watched it several times.

What you see is only part of the picture. The other part you will never get from the video even though it is right in front of your eyes, is the feeling of it. I could sit here and try to explain to you how to have a powerful punch without having to use an enormous amount of strength and you would say "yeah sure...", but if I demonstrated to you (at 10% speed) the punch only once, you would immediately go WOW that is amazing! I have personally witnessed LEOs who have years of police training yell out "Holy ****, I never would have known it was that powerful!" My advice is, find a good Bujinkan instructor nearby, I am sure they will be happy clarify these concerns (meant in a humble way).

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Im kind of on the fence with this type of stuff. Almost all of the examples you see are demonstrations. The typical throw your arm out and pause for the guy to do his stuff thing. The person getting tossed around (IMO) always seems to be embellishing the effect on him. You dont want to show diserspect to the demonstrator by resisting which is only polite and you are there to let him demonstrate techniques after all. On the other hand, effective or not, Mr. Hatsumi is quite spry and in good shape for his age. I hope I can be tossing out forward rolls and manuvers like that when I reach his age. So he must be doing something right. To be honest though I would like to see a ninjutsu vs. MMA "no rules" match to see just how effective the empty hand stuff is. Philosophically however if the Ninja knew a death match was in the making I would hope he would either not show up or shoot the opponent the night before and make it appear to be a random street crime or something like that.

 

[Bigshadow]

-Details please. Otherwise ****.

Please have a little maturity with your posts.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Curious, have you ever been cuddled? Ever not been able to get someone off of you that you outweigh by 60 lbs, and knowing that if you bite him, he will bit you back from a much better vantage point? As stated several time, Im a middle of the roader between sport and SD, but reading comments like these make me realize how clueless SD purists really are about the sport guys.

Yes. and, Yes.

I have great respect for true graplers, and the pretzles they can turn you into. Enjoyed (well, my mind did, my body hated every minute) a good discussion and demo once of the "pro wrestling" holds, and how they had been modified to look cool but not really hurt, and then demos of the original moves, which hurt alot. Quite alot in fact. Have also watched alot of the UFC stuff on Spike the last few months, and been quite enjoying it.

In fact, I've on 2 occations had to try and get someone off of me who outweighed me by over 60 lbs. But in 1 case, it was a she, and I'd rather not talk about that night if thats ok with you.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

-So you refuse to argue your point with evidence? Will you later claim you won this argument too?

Sorry pump, but posting a dozen links isn't on my todo list today.
I told you where to look. That is enough if you are really interested, and not just looking to stir up trouble.

 

[RoninPimp]

What you see is only part of the picture. The other part you will never get from the video even though it is right in front of your eyes, is the feeling of it. I could sit here and try to explain to you how to have a powerful punch without having to use an enormous amount of strength and you would say "yeah sure...", but if I demonstrated to you (at 10% speed) the punch only once, you would immediately go WOW that is amazing! I have personally witnessed LEOs who have years of police training yell out "Holy ****, I never would have known it was that powerful!" My advice is, find a good Bujinkan instructor nearby, I am sure they will be happy clarify these concerns (meant in a humble way).

-I have shared training space with Bujinkan guys. I have felt some of their techniques. I was not impressed. The problem I have with that argument is many things hurt when demonstrated, but can't be pulled off in a similar fashion when resistance is met. Thanks for the insult free discussion.

 

[RoninPimp]

Please have a little maturity with your posts.

-This was not directed at you. I only give back what EBA gives first. Everybody else has been great, even if they disagree.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Whenever you want to get on the mat to train, you just let me know. The first class is always free. We'll see if you still refure to it as "cuddling" afterwards. -RoninPimp

No thanks. I have competent training options at hand. Just for the record, I will always refer to it as "cuddling", even if Royce himself pops every joint in my body. It just might be hard to make out, what with all the screaming, moaning and gasping I'd be doing. Wait. That sounds rather obscene. Ah...forgitaboutit.

opcorn:

 

[shesulsa]

Moderator Note:

Keep this conversation polite and respectful and refrain from further sniping.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Sr. Moderator

 

[Bigshadow]

You dont want to show diserspect to the demonstrator by resisting which is only polite and you are there to let him demonstrate techniques after all.

There is a key factor that is over-looked regarding our training (structural integrity). The key to being able to resist is having balance, meaning... hips over feet, shoulders over hips, head over shoulders. Just like playing Jenga, you start moving the pieces out of alignment the structure becomes an unstable base from which to launch attacks (and this is only a basic elementary part, there is FAR MORE) and resistance becomes futile... Sure I could try a wrist lock on you while we stand toe-to-toe and you are are balanced, and you will be able to resist it. Let me change your structure slightly, now it is futile to try and resist.

Try having someone take you off balance (backwards) where you have no support, no matter how strong you are, you cannot pick up either foot without falling or being crushed. There are many other factors but this is a simple and overly exagerated demonstration.

I won't say anymore about it, just "feel" it.

 

[RoninPimp]

No thanks. I have competent training options at hand. Just for the record, I will always refer to it as "cuddling", even if Royce himself pops every joint in my body. It just might be hard to make out, what with all the screaming, moaning and gasping I'd be doing. Wait. That sounds rather obscene. Ah...forgitaboutit.

opcorn:

-For the record. I did not post what EBA posted as my quote. It was part of negative feedback I gave EBA for his never ending insults.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Why is it that we are all so awestruck by the exotic? Staying in shape, (which seems to be neglected by a lot of these people.props to Hatsumi for physical example), learning some basic techniques and perfecting them, and being proficient with modern weapons never seems to satisfy people. There has to be some mystical, complicated "system" that satisfies peoples "invincibility desire". Give me a well conditioned body, expertise in some basic boxing/kicking/grappling, proficiency in guns, knives, sticks and environmental weapons and the right mindset to use them all and keep all the exotic esoteric crap IMO. But thats just me, everybody has the right to spend their own time and money however they please and while we all have the right to our opinions I will never belittle someones choice of pastime. Some people seem to have overinflated opinions of themselves with delusions of "warrior grandeur" but most are just good people doing what makes them feel good. In the end its more the ability and willingness of the person to use ANY fighting skills that will prevail vs. "my kung-fu is superior to your kung-fu".

 

[Bigshadow]

-I have shared training space with Bujinkan guys. I have felt some of their techniques. I was not impressed. The problem I have with that argument is many things hurt when demonstrated, but can't be pulled off in a similar fashion when resistance is met. Thanks for the insult free discussion.

Sorry to hear that. There are many other factors involved there as well, try going to a seminar, you might get a better sampling. -- No offense intended to the guys you trained with.



Your welcome!

 

[RoninPimp]

There is a key factor that is over-looked regarding our training (structural integrity). The key to being able to resist is having balance, meaning... hips over feet, shoulders over hips, head over shoulders. Just like playing Jenga, you start moving the pieces out of alignment the structure becomes an unstable base from which to launch attacks (and this is only a basic elementary part, there is FAR MORE) and resistance becomes futile... Sure I could try a wrist lock on you while we stand toe-to-toe and you are are balanced, and you will be able to resist it. Let me change your structure slightly, now it is futile to try and resist.

Try having someone take you off balance (backwards) where you have no support, no matter how strong you are, you cannot pick up either foot without falling or being crushed. There are many other factors but this is a simple and overly exagerated demonstration.

I won't say anymore about it, just "feel" it.

-So how do those concepts apply to the unrealistic techniques Hatsumi demonstrates?

 

[Bigshadow]

-So how do those concepts apply to the unrealistic techniques Hatsumi demonstrates?

That my friend you are going to have to figure out for yourself. We cannot all be spoon fed.

 

[Bigshadow]

-So how do those concepts apply to the unrealistic techniques Hatsumi demonstrates?

If you are ever in central Florida and would like to do a little training with us, let me know, we would be happy to have you visit. Maybe we could answer your questions.

This is an invite not a challenge.

 

[RoninPimp]

Sorry to hear that. There are many other factors involved there as well, try going to a seminar, you might get a better sampling. -- No offense intended to the guys you trained with.



Your welcome!

That my friend you are going to have to figure out for yourself. We cannot all be spoon fed.

-I would argue that if the concepts and techniques of Hatsumi's teachings are real and practical, then it could be explained with words or video that wouldn't require my $ and/or a huge time comitment.