Are there ANY genuine Shaolin monks?

[kal]

OK, I know that most of the so-called "Shaolin Monks" you see are nothing more than wushu athletes who the Chinese government has given robes and shaved heads.

I'm also aware that the ones who travel around the world giving demos (eg Wheel of Life) are just circus performers. Same for these guys:

But are ALL the monks frauds? Are there ANY remaining that are genuine? What about the people featured in these types of documentaries?

Are they also basically wushu people wearing robes?

How can you tell which (if any!) Shaolin people in China are genuine?

 

[Mei Hua]

There are still some "real" monks around, though not many.

They do not travel or demonstrate like the monk actors do, but they do exist at the temple.

 

[kal]

What about these books by Matthew Polly (American Shaolin) and Antonio Graceffo (Monk From Brooklyn)?

Were these guys actually doing genuine Shaolin in China, or simply Wushu?

And for that matter, what about Mark Saltzman (Iron & Silk)? Was he learning genuine martial arts from Pan Qing Fu? Or was that also merely Wushu?

 

[michaeledward]

I read Polly's book.

He gives a pretty good explanation about the Chinese Government and how it shut down the Shoalin Temple in the middle of the last century. The Shoalin Temple re-opened in the 80's.

I believe that much of the historical and cultural knowlege of the place was lost in those years where it was not functioning. But in closing the temple, the government did not purge all of the monks; some remained.

When the temple reopened, I believe some of the retained knowlege was available to be passed on.

One of the neat things about Polly's book, and his story, is that he travelled to China while it was still a pretty closed country. It was a nice cultural comparison.

 

[Taijiguy]

I'd also like to say that being a monk has zilch to do with what kind, or how good, your martial arts is. Someone can practice 100% authentic Shaolin kungfu, shave their head, and dress like a monk and not be a monk. On the other hand, someone could practice modern wushu, tae kwon do, soccer, whatever and still be considered a monk. Many monks in China are not considered true monks as they're there more for tourism purposes (to run the gift shops, maintain the temple grounds, put on performances, etc.) or in some cases, as a government agent to help control religion. Often they become monks as a way of having a job rather than spiritual reasons, particularly in Shaolin. Of course being a monk is also an internal spiritual matter, so there's no reason someone in the temples can't be a real monk if they want.

 

[AceHBK]

Shifu Shi Yan-Ming
- 34th Generation Shaolin Temple Monk
- In New York, Shifu founded the U.S.A. Shaolin Temple
- Shifu Shi Yan-Ming defected to the U.S in 1992 while on the first-ever
Shaolin Temple Monks tour of the United States. On the last date of the tour in San Francisco he slipped out of the hotel in the middle of the night and escaped to the new world.

Youtube his name and u will find clips as well as clips on his webpage.

http://www.usashaolintemple.com/

 

[Rabu]

I would suggest the answer is both no and yes.

No, there are no living Shaolin monks as has been described in the oral traditions passed down or as seen in movies or written about in books. (or martial fairy tales for that matter)

Yes, there are currently monks who live on the grounds of the Shaolin Temple. Some of them practice martial arts. Some may practice Buddhism. Hard to say really, in a country which crushes any religious practice.

Give it a few more generations and the distinction will fade and be unimportant.

Jet Li noted that in his visit to the Shao Lin temple in 1978, that only three people resided in the temple. The head abbot, a janitor and a cook. According to him, none of them had any martial arts knowledge.

 

[pstarr]

I have to agree. I don't believe that any of the "real" martial-art type Shao-lin monks still exist. There are many who allege that that's what they are but they are, in fact, wushu athletes in saffron robes.

 

[Flying Crane]

Years ago, my sifu travelled to the Shaolin temple. While there, he demonstrated some Longfist forms that he learned from his instructor, who was from Jing Wu. Some of the old monks who were there commented to him, "Ah, we remember when they USED TO do this kind of thing here at the temple". Now, it seems it's mostly Modern Wushu. Impressive athleticism, but not a solid fighting art.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Jet Li noted that in his visit to the Shao Lin temple in 1978, that only three people resided in the temple. The head abbot, a janitor and a cook. According to him, none of them had any martial arts knowledge.

This actually dovetails well with the observations my first teacher made when he went to Shaolin in the early 1980s. He found that there were only three monks. They were very old, the youngest was 79, and were not allowed to teach Chan Buddhism to anyone. He said there were a lot of soldiers around pretending to be Shaolin Monks.

It is interesting the Jet said the guys he saw had no MA knowledge because I have seen footage of one of the monks performing a form and sparring with my former teacher.

By the way my first teacher made a documentary about his trip called Kung Fu Pilgrimage. It was about 1983. It may only have been released in Australia, however.

 

[Skippy]

Yes, I imagine there are.


As some have already stated here the actual monks do not perform in shows or have interest in opening schools. They are more focused on their Chan, Buddhist practice. Their kung fu, wushu, martial arts whatever you choose to call it takes a back seat to religious practice. Heres a hint & a good way to know if you have an authentic monk in front of you. If the monk is involved in a show production, you know sitting on the ground bouncing around doing the good old kung fu break dance routine while twirling around a whip chain, chances are he's not a monk:uhyeah:

 

[Mider1985]

Has anyone heard of Dr Yawn Ming......He's not a monk im guessing cause he has kids. But i think he teaches traditional Shaolin or Chinese arts. He runs YMAA

 

[Skippy]

Has anyone heard of Dr Yawn Ming......He's not a monk im guessing cause he has kids. But i think he teaches traditional Shaolin or Chinese arts. He runs YMAA

Yes I've heard of him. He's been around for a long time.%-}

 

[mograph]

Has anyone heard of Dr Yawn Ming......He's not a monk im guessing cause he has kids. But i think he teaches traditional Shaolin or Chinese arts. He runs YMAA

Yang Jwing-Ming?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jwing-Ming_Yang

 

[Mider1985]

Yang Jwing-Ming?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jwing-Ming_Yang

Yeah thats the Gentlemen

 

[bowser666]

Well yeah it is sad what has happened to the Temple but what lots of people are forgetting is that even though what may have happened at the Shao Lin Temple did. It doesn't mean that Shao Lin is dead. Read your history people. Many monks left during various times of cultural instability and moved to many different parts of the pacific Rim. Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, New Guinea etc.... They took Shao Lin with them in their training. Shao Lin isn't dead, its just dispersed throughout a large area.


For example , the school I train at (Chang Chuan and Wu Xing Chuan) our lineage comes from Taiwan, and then back to Nanking Kuo Shu Institute, with links to Chin Woo as well. Those schools were made up up teachers who learned from Shao Lin etc....... Recheck history people before you are quick to dismiss Shao Lin as dead and gone. Yeah they suffered some serious blows and have irreparable damage but its not gone, and new generations will contribute back to make Shao Lin even stronger.

 

[Mider1985]

Dr Yawn Ming who runs the YMAA is not a monk but he comes REALLYYYYYYYYYYY close.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't think Dr Yang is close to a Shaolin Monk since a big part of original Shaolin was a deep Buddhist practice.

We tend to forget that a Shaolin Monk of the past was a Buddhist Monk first and a Martial Artist second.

 

[Mider1985]

I don't think Dr Yang is close to a Shaolin Monk since a big part of original Shaolin was a deep Buddhist practice.

We tend to forget that a Shaolin Monk of the past was a Buddhist Monk first and a Martial Artist second.

I said close not perfect. And how do you know he isnt buddhist?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I said close not perfect. And how do you know he isnt buddhist?

He is one of the people I have trained with over the years and he may or may not be Buddhist, I never asked him and he never said anything about it, but even if he is he is most certainly not a Shaolin Monk. He is from Taiwan and he did not learn his MA from Shaolin or from a Shaolin Monk.

He does however teach Shaolin Kung Fu, as do many people who are not from the Shaolin Monastery or associated with it in any way. Dr Yang also teaches Ynag style Taijiquan and he is not a Taoist priest either nor is he a member of the Yang Taijiquan family. He also teaches Qinna, Qigong, and White Crane.

My mother-in-law is a devout Buddhist and mainland Chinese and she is not a Shaolin Monk either