Are the sweeps used in free sparring in any kata?

wab25

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
883
Reaction score
656
I don't believe those two "sweeps" are in Shotokan kata, as demonstrated. However, all the skills necessary to do those are practiced quite a bit in the katas.

The one at 30 seconds, where he catches the kick and sweeps... The hand going into chamber is the hand catching the kick, while the "punching" hand is reaching for lapel / gi / upper body control. The sweep is then an application of the low front stance walking that is done in nearly all the katas. The better you can do the low front stance walking forward and backward, the better you will be at that particular sweep.

The first one was more a throw coming from a turn with good stance and power. These are all over the katas... that was one application of a 180 degree turn, which shows up a lot in the katas. Again, the better you are at turning with good balance and structure, the better that throw is.

There are other ways to learn both of those. I learned them both in jujitsu and was decent at them, without ever studying a karate kata. Now that I have been training Shotokan Karate... I have noticed these throws (and most of my other throws) have gotten significantly better. Most of that is due to better structure from the katas... not from the free sparring or self defense or bunkai work.
 

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,277
Reaction score
216
I did not watch the video, but anyone interested can look at the nami-ashi geri in Naihanchi/Tekki Shodan and decide if sweeping is an application they want to train from the kata.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Where do sweeps in Shotokan and Goju Ryu sparring come from if it's not directly from a Kata?
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
I did not watch the video, but anyone interested can look at the nami-ashi geri in Naihanchi/Tekki Shodan and decide if sweeping is an application they want to train from the kata.

Where is the move that can be translated to a sweep?

 

wab25

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
883
Reaction score
656
Where do sweeps in Shotokan and Goju Ryu sparring come from if it's not directly from a Kata?
The sweeps are a direct application of the principles, skills and movement trained in the katas. To view kata as a dictionary of all the techniques in an art is a very limited view of kata. And it significantly limits your view of the art.
 

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,277
Reaction score
216
Where do sweeps in Shotokan and Goju Ryu sparring come from if it's not directly from a Kata?

I won't venture to answer directly this question as phrased, but one of the first kata in Goju-ryu has a foot sweep. Gekisai Dai Ichi.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
I won't venture to answer directly this question as phrased, but one of the first kata in Goju-ryu has a foot sweep. Gekisai Dai Ichi.

OK so that covers Goju. Still wonder why Shotokan has it.
 

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,277
Reaction score
216
Done. There's no use of the arms.

OK.

For anyone else interested in the topic, do your research. It's true you have to follow a certain training methodology and progression path with partner drills before you see things. It's not for everyone - those needing a literal translation, I suggest just training without kata and forms and going straight to a fighting gym.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
OK.

For anyone else interested in the topic, do your research. It's true you have to follow a certain training methodology and progression path with partner drills before you see things. It's not for everyone - those needing a literal translation, I suggest just training without kata and forms and going straight to a fighting gym.

You haven't even watched the clip in the OP. Do that first. Do you think that flows naturally from the curricilum?
 

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,277
Reaction score
216
You haven't even watched the clip in the OP. Do that first. Do you think that flows naturally from the curricilum?

Nah. Waste of my time. If you don't see it, that is fine.

I'm really talking more to other people. They should be aware a sweep is a common application for nami ashi geri as cataloged in Naihanchi/Tekki and if they want to train it in that way they need to see out the proper teacher and methodology to make it work.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
Nah. Waste of my time. If you don't see it, that is fine.

I'm really talking more to other people. They should be aware a sweep is a common application for nami ashi geri as cataloged in Naihanchi/Tekki and if they want to train it in that way they need to see out the proper teacher and methodology to make it work.

Yeah I don't see any pulls in the katas, which usually accompany the foot.

So that's why I'm interested how it became a scoring technique in Shotokan.
 
Last edited:

dancingalone

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,277
Reaction score
216
Yeah I don't see any pulls in the katas, which usually accompanies the foot.

So that's why I'm interested how it became a scoring technique in Shotokan.

You might be more happy doing MMA or kickboxing. Nothing wrong with it. You can learn to be a fighter very quickly with the right coaching.
 
OP
A

Acronym

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
41
You might be more happy doing MMA or kickboxing. Nothing wrong with it. You can learn to be a fighter very quickly with the right coaching.

What does that have to do with my inquiry?
 
Top