Are Hobos smarter than we give them credit for?

[Rayban]

I found this rather interesting today when I was waiting for a train in Melbourne.

Melbourne Metro being Melbourne Metro I had plenty of time to wait so I decided to take my headphones out and listen to some music. While I was untangaling the headphones though I was approached by three seperate people asking for change. I though this was a little too coincidental to ignore.

So I put my headphones away and decided to people watch instead. There was actually four people asking for change from various people around the platform. Then i noticed the link. They were only approaching people either on the phone, reading or as I was doing becuase they were distracted. I also noted that they were not going anywhere near anyone in a suit, but were targetting students and mothers with children.

I didn't realise that beggers moved in packs lke that and I just found that an interesting bit of trivia. To be honset though, if they were smart they would have taken a seperate platform each.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There was a study a few years back that showed that beggars got more money from people if they asked for a specific amount of money instead of 'loose change'.

 

[72ronin]

Like a pack of Hyena's lol
Cruise around asking for money (usualy "small change for their train fare" etc) of lets say 100+ people a outing, get a 10 - 20% success rate and they have at least $20 or more for less than an hours work.

How about how they usualy show a couple coins so that the ploy of needing just a dollar or so more to catch the train looks conceivable to many who may have change in the pocket and feel intimidated or charitable or whatever it may be.

They are happy to party their unemployment benefits from government away, something like $450+, in a three day binge on payweek, then do this during offweek.
A large percentage of them wouldnt change their lifestyles if they could, and get ample opportunities to do so. No sympathy for the majority of them.

 

[Indagator]

The title of this thread reminds me of that old NOFX song "Freedom Like A Shopping Cart"....

 

[David43515]

Some of them are VERY smart. My sister worked in the main branch of a large city`s library system in the 80s and 90s. She said that there were probably more computer savy people at that time among the homeless than among the general population. They spent all day inside the library when the weather was bad and they learned to use the PCs and spent thier time reading because they`d get kicked out if they were sleeping.

 

[Cirdan]

Don`t underestimate hobo smarts.

I remember seeing one of them staggering around when his cellphone suddenly rang. He straightened and pulled out one of the most expensive cells I`ve seen. "Yeah this is Roffe. I am raising some cash at the theatre, you should probably go to the marketplace instead. Ok, see you later." Then he put the cell back in his pocket, started shaking again and went for his next target.

One hobo actually threatened me with violence because I didn`t reply to his "Got any change?". Was that some new tactic I wonder?

 

[Rayban]

Don`t underestimate hobo smarts.

I remember seeing one of them staggering around when his cellphone suddenly rang. He straightened and pulled out one of the most expensive cells I`ve seen. "Yeah this is Roffe. I am raising some cash at the theatre, you should probably go to the marketplace instead. Ok, see you later." Then he put the cell back in his pocket, started shaking again and went for his next target.

One hobo actually threatened me with violence because I didn`t reply to his "Got any change?". Was that some new tactic I wonder?

See this is what I mean. I'm actually starting to wonder if there are any genuine ones at all. they're probably statistically insignificant compared to the charlatans

 

[Cirdan]

See this is what I mean. I'm actually starting to wonder if there are any genuine ones at all. they're probably statistically insignificant compared to the charlatans

Considering the kind of money one can make, it is not suprising they are organized. One non-hobo tested this by sitting at a busy street here in Oslo, with a sign saying "I am a drug addict and need some cash for food. Please help". He made almost $100 in one hour, not bad for an amateur.

Anyway it is cold here in the winter so the real hobos often either move, get help or freeze to death.

 

[oaktree]

People who are homeless are people just like anyone so of course you will find
some who are great at marketing, organization and leadership and other traits.

Most Homeless are not trying to scam people out and would like to have a better life.
The Homeless people who I have talked to and worked with are some of the nicest caring and funny people I have ever met.

I am very proud that our city now has deposit boxes in which you can place your loose change which goes to pay for programs for homeless. I wish every city would invest money into it and help it's citizen instead of turning a blind eye.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

People who are homeless are people just like anyone so of course you will find
some who are great at marketing, organization and leadership and other traits.

Most Homeless are not trying to scam people out and would like to have a better life.
The Homeless people who I have talked to and worked with are some of the nicest caring and funny people I have ever met.

I am very proud that our city now has deposit boxes in which you can place your loose change which goes to pay for programs for homeless. I wish every city would invest money into it and help it's citizen instead of turning a blind eye.

In my experience...

There are many homeless people.

There are many reasons people are homeless. Economics, mental health, personal choice, drug and alcohol abuse are some of the reasons.

I don't mind helping out if I can. If I have pocket change or can spare a few dollars, I will generally do so.

I don't like being threatened or harassed if I cannot or chose not to give.

Good luck to them; good luck to us all. "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

No easy answers, no universal solutions. There are legitimately needy people out there; there are also lazy people, scammers, and general criminal types. No real way to easily decide who is which.

 

[Empty Hands]

Echoing...why would you assume they were dumb?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I found this rather interesting today when I was waiting for a train in Melbourne.

Melbourne Metro being Melbourne Metro I had plenty of time to wait so I decided to take my headphones out and listen to some music. While I was untangaling the headphones though I was approached by three seperate people asking for change. I though this was a little too coincidental to ignore.

So I put my headphones away and decided to people watch instead. There was actually four people asking for change from various people around the platform. Then i noticed the link. They were only approaching people either on the phone, reading or as I was doing becuase they were distracted. I also noted that they were not going anywhere near anyone in a suit, but were targetting students and mothers with children.

I didn't realise that beggers moved in packs lke that and I just found that an interesting bit of trivia. To be honset though, if they were smart they would have taken a seperate platform each.

Never assume people are not smart. What ever they do, they have been doing it for years, they become atisans.
Sean

 

[jks9199]

As Bill said -- the homeless cover a wide spectrum, and so do beggars. They aren't synonymous. Also, the group we're talking about is different in different countries, so it's dangerous to make generalizations too broadly.

Here in the US, we have a scary number of people who are one paycheck from being homeless. Many of these you wouldn't know are homeless unless you really pay attention... They may even hold down jobs. They're just not making enough to pay the rent and meet their other financial obligations. Many of these may live in various shelter situations, when they can find space.

But that's not really the group that the OP is talking about. Here in the US, the beggars are a different group. They may be homeless -- or they may not. They may or may not speak English. There really are "professional beggars" who make a decent, tax-free living begging... and they've got their act down to a science. Others are simply people out to collect a few bucks...

 

[Flea]

Scratch the surface of anything and you'll find it to be more complex and scientific than you'd think. It's true for sports, for politics, for microorganisms and weather patterns, and for begging.

I'm quite happy to support the homeless, usually by donating my time at various agencies. I've slung hash in soup kitchens, read to children, staffed crisis lines, painted walls, and served on dozens of committees. When I give directly, it's usually in the form of bus tokens or grocery store gift cards. Some reject it, but usually people are happy to get them. It's their choice and I don't pass judgment either way because I don't know their stories any more than they know mine.

 

[MA-Caver]

One hobo actually threatened me with violence because I didn`t reply to his "Got any change?". Was that some new tactic I wonder?

More than likely it was frustration. Imagine how many times he's been ignored... totally. As if he's invisible? Listen to the lyrics of Phil Collins song "Another Day In Paradise" to get the idea.
Many that go out into the streets are often times very sane and others become mentally ill because of the enormous stress of living out there in the unknown (unknown where the next meal, warm and SAFE place to sleep, bath, job, whatever!... all of them terrifying if you've done it for a while). Through alcoholism, drugs, abuse some start to lose their grip on reality because of the surrealistic landscape that they find themselves in. Once confident that people will help them out finding fewer and fewer each day. So the guy threatening you probably was just raging against the machine/system that knocked him out of the loop and is having an awfully hard time finding his way back. You don't reply ... what does that say to him... you didn't intend to but it might've said to him... "you don't count enough to even talk to!"
Then again it could've been an intimidation tactic.
But more-n-likely... it's somewhere in between.

See this is what I mean. I'm actually starting to wonder if there are any genuine ones at all. they're probably statistically insignificant compared to the charlatans

Whatever the statistics are, they're likely to be significantly larger on the true homeless than the charlatans. Ask any social worker or public health/welfare worker.

Never assume people are not smart. What ever they do, they have been doing it for years, they become artisans.
Sean

You do ANYTHING for years and you become an artist at it... eventually. Can you think of anything more sadder than being an artist at begging?
Also this made me think of the "court of miracles" scene from the 1939 film Hunchback Of Norte Dame starring Charles Laughton. Where the poet Gringoire stumbles upon the beggars coming home from a day's work and their various afflictions miraculously vanish and they're as healthy as he is.

As Bill said -- the homeless cover a wide spectrum, and so do beggars. They aren't synonymous. Also, the group we're talking about is different in different countries, so it's dangerous to make generalizations too broadly.

Here in the US, we have a scary number of people who are one paycheck from being homeless. Many of these you wouldn't know are homeless unless you really pay attention... They may even hold down jobs. They're just not making enough to pay the rent and meet their other financial obligations. Many of these may live in various shelter situations, when they can find space.

But that's not really the group that the OP is talking about. Here in the US, the beggars are a different group. They may be homeless -- or they may not. They may or may not speak English. There really are "professional beggars" who make a decent, tax-free living begging... and they've got their act down to a science. Others are simply people out to collect a few bucks...

Professional beggars do make it harder for the real beggars. Likely they've a nice apartment across town and eat well each night where as the real beggars may go hungry because a potential giver was tapped out by a pro. That my friends is very tragic indeed.
Like many here in the states and in a sizable city, I see those standing at the end of freeway off ramps with their various signs. Several times I've cracked my window and passed a couple of bucks to the guy/woman on the corner intersection. Mainly because I've been there and know the feeling of being passed by several hundred times before somebody decides to give me a dollar.

 

[Cirdan]

More than likely it was frustration. Imagine how many times he's been ignored... totally. As if he's invisible? Listen to the lyrics of Phil Collins song "Another Day In Paradise" to get the idea.
Many that go out into the streets are often times very sane and others become mentally ill because of the enormous stress of living out there in the unknown (unknown where the next meal, warm and SAFE place to sleep, bath, job, whatever!... all of them terrifying if you've done it for a while). Through alcoholism, drugs, abuse some start to lose their grip on reality because of the surrealistic landscape that they find themselves in. Once confident that people will help them out finding fewer and fewer each day. So the guy threatening you probably was just raging against the machine/system that knocked him out of the loop and is having an awfully hard time finding his way back. You don't reply ... what does that say to him... you didn't intend to but it might've said to him... "you don't count enough to even talk to!"
Then again it could've been an intimidation tactic.
But more-n-likely... it's somewhere in between.

Hard to tell, my own guess based on how he sounded and acted would be that the needed money for his next shot rather bad. Or less likely he owed money and had been given a short time to pay up or else. If he was not making any cash it was because of acting agressively, people here are fairly high on the bleeding heart scale. Not that it is wrong, it is just a fact. I told him squarely NO and walked away as he promised to smash my face the next time. One or two guys nearby might have been his buddies.

I do donate money to organizations from time to time, on occation I have also helped people in real trouble on the street when everyone else walked by without stopping. However chipping in for someone`s next dosage is not my idea of helping.

 

[MA-Caver]

I do donate money to organizations from time to time, on occation I have also helped people in real trouble on the street when everyone else walked by without stopping. However chipping in for someone`s next dosage is not my idea of helping.

Agreed, enabling someone to get their next fix or drink isn't going to do YOU any good at all. But it'll do them good. As a recovering alcoholic I can say that from a lot of meetings I've heard that one last drink was all it took to get 'em to quit. That one last fix... to say I'm done with it.
But how can they get there if they don't get the money to get it?

No, I won't help out either because I've seen a lot of them die from that last drink or fix. Yet what a person does with the money I give them isn't really none of my business now is it?

 

[Rayban]

I'd like to thank everyone for their posts. A lot of insight that's certainly opened my mind a bit more.

I try not to generalise as best I can, but sometimes its really hard not to. If you act like a dummy long enough, people will think you a dummy.