Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Wing Woo Gar]

It depends. I mean again we don't really know. It is just assumed that drilling with a stick makes you better at it.

I have trained stick and gone at it with friends with nerf bats. And honestly I really wasn't much better off.

Coming at you fast with intent is nothing like heaven six.

Just like the judo video live stick fighting is a different animal to a drill.

Where do you find this crap? None of these people seem to know how to use a stick. Nerf bats? If you don’t know how to move then you shouldn’t bother with weapons training until you figure out where your feet are.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

He’s not arguing drills aren’t useful. He’s arguing that without some level of application, they are less useful.

He is rude but not erudite.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

My issue with this is that if you need a cane to move around, your footwork won’t be like that.

Maybe he doesn’t need it, maybe he just carries it.

 

[Hanzou]

Maybe he doesn’t need it, maybe he just carries it.

Which is a rather uncommon thing to do....

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

My issue with this is that if you need a cane to move around, your footwork won’t be like that.

I agree that footwork is fundamental, it is what is missing in most striking schools other than boxing.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Which is a rather uncommon thing to do....

Yes, I agree. To me, it seems a bit odd. It would actually attract my attention if there was no gait deficit.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Too bad the editing time is over.

This is the one that I watched quite a few times. I think these two are quite good. They don't blind swing like a lot of the other videos.

I really like their footwork. Also, I think their sticks are thicker and heavier than some of the videos I saw, those all like 6oz skinny stick and they can afford to wack each other non stop and nobody drops. I remember I saw a video the two guys wacking each other from beginning till end, no defense, just keep wacking. I did not see any technique.

Watch some high level saber fencing. That is what these two are trying to emulate. the lunge step is ok on a linear path but they don’t close the gap too well. When will you have this little stick with you? It seems like a bit of a waste to train like this. A Skilled grappler will just accept a hit and then drive you into the pavement. What I didn’t see was anyone using the stick to poke or lock effectively.

 

[dvcochran]

That video is garbage. Neither of those two seem to know what to do with that stick. 13 th degree black belt? They move like insects. My granny could scrap better than that.

Ahh the ignorance of youth. We always thought we could do better than the next guy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, I agree. To me, it seems a bit odd. It would actually attract my attention if there was no gait deficit.

Even for folks who need it, there is sometimes no gait deficit. Before I had my foot surgery, I looked like I was walking normally (I learned later that I wasn't, but it wasn't something you could see) unless I was in pain. I always carried a cane when traveling, because I never knew when it would be needed. So I was often walking with a cane I didn't need at that moment.

 

[Alan0354]

My issue with this is that if you need a cane to move around, your footwork won’t be like that.

I don't need a cane to move around!!! Still doing kick boxing. It's a self defense weapon that is legal and looks normal for my age.

I am nothing good like in the video, but it's a start to learn moving around. I don't expect the attacker will move like that either. If the attacker is that good, I am $crewed!!!

 

[Alan0354]

That video is garbage. Neither of those two seem to know what to do with that stick. 13 th degree black belt? They move like insects. My granny could scrap better than that.

Ha ha, you said it!! I thought I was missing something.

I swear, people said you have to learn defense, blocking and all with the cane/stick. All the real fight or medium/full contact match I've seen with stick fight are mostly step in attack fast. Then when being attack, move back fast, swing a few defense swing hopefully can block the attack. I don't see anything fancy "block-counter attack....." type of fancy moves. It's seems like it's a fantasy to do all those.

This to a very big degree, is true on bare knuckle fighting. You don't do fancy blocking, turn, counter attack!!! You don't have time!!! People just parry, move, duck under. The simpler the move, the more effective. I am going on this principle, LESS IS MORE. I only practice basic 4 strikes with the stick, top two and swing to the legs two. Keep it simple, don't confuse myself.

 

[drop bear]

Where do you find this crap? None of these people seem to know how to use a stick. Nerf bats? If you don’t know how to move then you shouldn’t bother with weapons training until you figure out where your feet are.

Dog brothers are pretty well known for one of the few weapons based environments that are realistic due to their focus on live training and contact.

 

[drop bear]

What is the right thing and what is the wrong thing?

The right thing would be smashing something violently with a stick until you are very strong and fast.

The wrong thing would be kata.

 

[Oily Dragon]

What is the right thing and what is the wrong thing?

Right thing: using the staff to increase your offensive and defensive striking range, which is a game changer in hand to hand. The Dog Brothers and Siniwali heaven six show that with short sticks, even though one is sparring and the other is just a coordination drill. Two ends of the continuum.

Wrong thing: dropping the staff. A lot of staff technique attacks are meant to make the other person drop whatever they have, that's why it's called the "mother of all weapons". Also why the single most important drill with the staff, holding on to it, especially if someone is trying to grab it. You can drill that 3 to 1, too. It's a lot of fun, your attackers just make sure to wear heavy gloves.

Which is why stick skills are taught to security, police, and military forces around the world to this day. They work well enough on mobs. Would they work for a mob of BJJ goons? Probably all too well.

 

[Alan0354]

The right thing would be smashing something violently with a stick until you are very strong and fast.

The wrong thing would be kata.

Agree 100%, I beat on the heavy bags, I swing very basic swings, 4 swings, 2 to the head, 2 to the knee, LESS IS MORE, just practice over and over with footwork stepping in attack, step out back or side to avoid being chased.

Yes, as I get stronger, I change to a heavier stick to get more power.

 

[drop bear]

Right thing: using the staff to increase your offensive and defensive striking range, which is a game changer in hand to hand. The Dog Brothers and Siniwali heaven six show that with short sticks, even though one is sparring and the other is just a coordination drill. Two ends of the continuum.

Wrong thing: dropping the staff. A lot of staff technique attacks are meant to make the other person drop whatever they have, that's why it's called the "mother of all weapons". Also why the single most important drill with the staff, holding on to it, especially if someone is trying to grab it. You can drill that 3 to 1, too. It's a lot of fun, your attackers just make sure to wear heavy gloves.

Which is why stick skills are taught to security, police, and military forces around the world to this day. They work well enough on mobs. Would they work for a mob of BJJ goons? Probably all too well.

I have used asp batons on guys. I have had people use sticks and the like on me. And no they don't work well on mobs if say you are one guy getting mobbed by a bunch of guys. Rather than if you are a line of guys with bats.

My experience is hold one end and hit them with the other. Anything much fancier than that gets the bat grabbed.

And don't point with it.

 

[drop bear]

Agree 100%, I beat on the heavy bags, I swing very basic swings, 4 swings, 2 to the head, 2 to the knee, LESS IS MORE, just practice over and over with footwork stepping in attack, step out back or side to avoid being chased.

Yes, as I get stronger, I change to a heavier stick to get more power.

And look this again is a guess. You would have to go out and test it. Like I did with the nerf bats.

 

[Oily Dragon]

The issue with kata or fist sets is the trap they set for the mind, because they are a tool for the mind and body connection, and the original meaning of those sets was transmission of ideas through time to later generations. The dance doesn't become the dancer, the dancer becomes the dance. Dancers start with mapped routines but eventually discard them when that final barrier is broken.

Bruce Lee said it best: "The essence of fighting is the art of moving at the right time."

The only timing you can learn by yourself with a solo fist set is your own, of limited value. Add a partner, resistance, and some chaos, and it's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether. This is something the combat sports understand very well.

 

[Alan0354]

Which is a rather uncommon thing to do....

That's exactly what I've been doing. You hear about older Chinese being attacked? A cane is the best legal self defense weapon. I am still exercising 7 hours a week, it's like almost 1 1/2hr, 5 days a week.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Even for folks who need it, there is sometimes no gait deficit. Before I had my foot surgery, I looked like I was walking normally (I learned later that I wasn't, but it wasn't something you could see) unless I was in pain. I always carried a cane when traveling, because I never knew when it would be needed. So I was often walking with a cane I didn't need at that moment.

Ahh the ignorance of youth. We always thought we could do better than the next guy.

Youth? I’m 50, even Stevie Wonder can see that’s crap.