Any good advice to a non ground fighter??

[Jenna]

Like in the other thread about striking from below, in some defensive situation, if I am on my back mounted by an attacker, whatis the simplest / most effective advice for me I am a non-ground fighter???

I want up!! can you tell me how you would suggest? Like I mean keep it simple because I do not really know about nothing.. I do not want to specifically gain a ground advantage nor take years learning ground skills.. I am too lazy and short on time for that.. Just for this one situation how, mechanically, am I to go about getting back to upright most expediently? What, beyond the obvious, getting him off of me, am I aiming to do and how to do it?? I have little to no advantage against half decent ground fighters or larger opponents who have managed a takedown and mount until I am up.. or.. at the very least suwari or seiza like seated or knees where I regain some mechanical advantage or have some thing to work with.. thank you for your advice Jx

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Okay, this is the most basic approach I teach to brand new students for self-defense purposes:

Step 1) Shut down the striking. It may be technically possible to win a striking contest from the bottom, but it is highly unlikely to work out well for you. If your opponent is sitting up to rain down punches on you, sit up and grab him around the torso with your head glued tight to his chest. Drive both feet into the ground and use the power of your legs and back to drive your own shoulder blades to the ground, pulling the opponent forward so that he has to put his hands on the ground and can't use them to punch you.

Step 2) Scootch your body up towards your opponents head so that your arms are now holding him around shoulder level. Keep hugging his back and keep the side of your head glued against his chest so that he can't hit you.

If you are facing to your left, keep hugging your opponent's back with your right arm. Use your left arm to overhook your opponent's right arm and pull it in tight to your body so he can't post out with his arm. Use your left foot to trap your opponent's right ankle so he can't post out with his leg.

Step 3) Bridge your hips up and then go to your left, rolling your opponent to his back and coming up onto your knees. As you come over, swim your hands to the inside of your opponent's biceps so he can't strike, eye-gouge, or hair-pull from the bottom. You will end up in your opponent's guard.

Step 4) Make sure you end up in good posture, with your head over your hips. Since you are not a ground fighter, stand up and back out of your opponent's guard immediately. If your opponent is a jiu-jitsu fighter, that might take some technique, but the odds of you ever getting mugged by a jiu-jitsu practitioner are very small. Against most folks, you will probably just be able stand up as long as your posture is good.

There are a lot of additional "what-ifs", I could go into (what if I can't overhook his arm? what if he grapevines my legs? what if he grabs my head?, what if he's trying to choke me instead of punch me?, etc, etc), but this is one of the very first lessons I teach to new white belts.

 

[Jenna]

This is exactly what I was wanting thank you so much Tony for taking time to lay this out step by step! It is clear enough I can even visualise though it would need a dose of practice to get this even half right.. Yes if he is to grapevine my legs I imagine he is versed at ground fighting and it is beyond what I am asking here.. just this simple escape sounds very useful to me, great help.. thank you! you have got me interested in finding more out, Jxxx

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Actually sometimes even untrained fighters will sometimes grapevine the legs, either by instinct or because they've seen trained grapplers do it. It's not too hard to deal with, though. Just some extra steps you have to get familiar with.

 

[Hanzou]

Tony pretty much nailed it. However, if you're unable to sit up and grab his torso while he's sitting on top of you, you can also bump your hips forward in order to make him fall forward. This should make it easier to wrap him up.

Btw, there's really no reason you shouldn't learn ground fighting.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Btw, there's really no reason you shouldn't learn ground fighting

Even if you do not go fully into ground fighting having a few basic techniques for the ground is always a good idea.

 

[Hanzou]

Even if you do not go fully into ground fighting having a few basic techniques for the ground is always a good idea.

Well the days of getting away with a few basic techniques is slowly coming to an end. At least here in the states. I'm starting to see more grappling and MMA schools than any other form of martial art in many U.S. cities, and more meatheads opening grappling garages where they're learning Bjj and CACC from videos.

That just means that there's an ever increasing chance of running into someone with solid grappling skills. Unless you're drilling on a consistent basis, basic techniques might not be enough.

 

[drop bear]

This is exactly what I was wanting thank you so much Tony for taking time to lay this out step by step! It is clear enough I can even visualise though it would need a dose of practice to get this even half right.. Yes if he is to grapevine my legs I imagine he is versed at ground fighting and it is beyond what I am asking here.. just this simple escape sounds very useful to me, great help.. thank you! you have got me interested in finding more out, Jxxx

Tony's bridge and roll in video form.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Tony's bridge and roll in video form.

Pretty close. The main thing I teach differently is a tight fit to prevent the opponent from posturing up to punch before you complete the reversal.

 

[drop bear]

Q

Pretty close. The main thing I teach differently is a tight fit to prevent the opponent from posturing up to punch before you complete the reversal.

Nice.

I knee them in the bum as well.

 

[kuniggety]

If you don't already know it, I would recommend learning the technical stand up. It is the most expedious way of hopping up from the ground while maintaining a good defensive position.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If you don't already know it, I would recommend learning the technical stand up. It is the most expedious way of hopping up from the ground while maintaining a good defensive position.

Yep. It's not a direct answer to the original question of how to escape bottom of mount, but it's a fundamental skill that everybody should know. I generally teach it to new students on their very first day of class.

 

[Langenschwert]

If someone's in full mount, getting up is hard. Tony's advice is solid. However, you're going to need to drill it often. It's like knife defence: it's a horrible situation to be in, so drill it consistently. Just doing it a few times will not suffice. Also, if you're small, it's even harder. Give yourself permission NOW to do what it takes... biting eye gouging, what have you.

Also, try not to end up flat on your back. Easier said than done. However, you can do a lot on the ground from a sitting position to avoid getting pinned in the first place. It's much easier to roll someone when you can get a foot on their knee and push it away from you.

Practice bridges and shrimping as part of your normal warm-up.

 

[drop bear]

And hit the escape.(and that is pretty much any escape) as they are moving in to mount because that is when they are the most unsettled.

This is not actually intuitive as most people want to take a little rest and consolidate before trying to get up. This works in favor of the guy on top.

Once you have rolled out of mount and are in guard. Grab their heels and stand up with your hips forwards and your head up. This will help you not get kicked in the face. And something a lot of people don't do.

Throw the feet to one side. Now if you want to lay a beat down on the guy. Throw the feet to the left as example. Drop your left knee In their guts. And hit them left hand left hammer fist.

Or run off. Either way.

 

[Jenna]

Thank you so much for taking time to reply @Tony Dismukes, @Hanzou, @RTKDCMB, @drop bear @kuniggety, @Langenschwert every thing here is very much appreciated and just exactly what I was after: no-nonsense clear and simple good advice and stuff for me to think on too Jxxx

 

[Buka]

I was taught to roll over the collarbone rather than the shoulder.

 

[Chrisoro]

Tim Cartmell's Ground Proofing DVD looks promising, if your aren't interested in investing a lot of time on learning grappling. Tim Cartmell is a BJJ black belt, btw., so this is probably solid stuff.

 

[oftheherd1]

Taking you at your word that you don't want to be a ground person, still I would recommend a couple more ideas. In the misfortunate circumstance you should find yourself on the ground with your opponent pinning your arms with his knees, forcefully raise one arm as you twist your body to roll him off to one side, escape however seems easiest in the other direction.

If he grabs your lapels, straight or cross grab, with his knees at your sides, reach up and place your right hand behind his head, and place your left on his chin. Your right hand should be open reaching around his head somewhat, and your left should be turned with your inner palm on the left of his chin. A quick twist as you turn right will take him right off you. If you think it is life or death, twist rapidly and forcefully as far as you can twist. You will probably paralyze or kill if you do it forcefully.

Hopefully you will never find yourself in position to need either, or Tony's excellent defense either.

 

[crazydiamond]

Bite a chunk out of what ever you can sink your teeth into ?

 

[Steve]

Bite a chunk out of what ever you can sink your teeth into ?

Yuck.