Animal Styles

[7starmantis]

OK, so what do you guys think about tiger style kung fu, or even Dragon style, as far as the theory of how they were created? Preying Mantis I can see, you see the bug, you poke it, watch it, copy it. How would you do that with a tiger? What do you guys think about how the systems were created, what is myth and what it truth ?


7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

Watching a tiger or leopard might not have been that hard. Not getting eaten might have been another trick.
I don't know what animals where around back when the styles were first created but observing them should not have been that hard. Makeing the body emulate the moves of the animals was a matter of trial and error , I'm sure.
Now the dragon, thats a different matter, you take all the animals wrap them to geather and add imagaination (maybe)
only MHO
Shadow:asian:

 

[7starmantis]

yeah but how do you create a form or move based on what you have to watch from 200 yards away. Well, at least I'm not getting within 200 yards of a wild tiger! I had the privaledge of working with some indochinese tigers at a refuge for a while, AMAZING!!

7sm

 

[sean_stonehart]

7* --- I don't think all of the styles are supposed to be "exact" imitations of the animals they're named after. I think some of the them are more about capturing the spirit or essance of that animal.

There are notables, Praying Mantis being one that the founder actually imitated the creature. It was a lot easier for Wang Lang to catch & imitate a mantis than say Kou Sze to capture a monkey & devlop the Tai Hsing Monkey system. Like Wang Lang, Kou Sze took what he already knew (Piqua & Ditang) & watched the monkeys. He copied much of their movements to be sure, but also more than anything he captured their spirit & essance in the way that they faught.

Besides... how could Lung Ying (Dragon Form boxing) come about? I missed the dragons myself! Like you as well, I wouldn't wanna get caught watching a tiger too closely!!! I tabby cat that weighs several hundred pounds & has a paw bigger than my head with a bad attitude is not going put up with me doing something like that!

 

[theneuhauser]

its an awesome testament to human self expression. sean_stoneheart you hit it right on the head about capturing the essence of the animal. its funny, because humans are hardly the perfect physical specimen, but while a leopard could never hope to imitate a crane, we in our imperfections are able to improve ourselves through the imitation of any and all of the earth's creatures.

and i mean all creatures, have you ever seen mandarin duck style?

 

[sean_stonehart]

Ummm... yup I've seen the Duck style boxing performed both in China & here in the states. Since I have only seen two demonstrations of it with no application of technique, I can't if it works or not, but it is "different" to see.

 

[7starmantis]

Yes, that is a good point about the essence of the animals, its amazing how we can take so much from the world around us.
I have never seen the duck system, sounds very interesting to say the least.


7sm

 

[theneuhauser]

it's supposed to use some of the most powerful kicks. ducks have powerful kicks?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

it's supposed to use some of the most powerful kicks. ducks have powerful kicks?

Well....thats deffinatly interesting. I wasn't aware that ducks had powerful kicks, maybe it should be called osterich style
Sorry I couldn't resist, seriously though, I would really enjoy seeing some of that system! I'm interested in all systems. Do you know of its origin or history/leneage?

7sm

 

[theneuhauser]

Originally posted by 7starmantis

I wasn't aware that ducks had powerful kicks, maybe it should be called osterich style


7sm

or ultimate kangaroo.


i dont have a clue about it's history, sorry.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

We have a couple of cats, now I know cats are small verison of tigers. One of are cats is very aggresive. He tends to snink around and ambush the other cat. He likes to jump on top of the other cats back and bite the neck area. The other cat will try and roll on to her back and use the back legs to fight with. This is what I have observed when the two cats go at it.
Bob :asian:

 

[theneuhauser]

cats are ruthless, that's why i dont have any

 

[Kempojujutsu]

We have a Dalmation dog that is afraid of the aggresive cat, and the dog is 3x the size of the cat.
Bob:asian:

 

[theneuhauser]

gotta love dogs, though.

i cant commit the time to a doggie, just yet, so im buying a terrarium and im going to raise some praying mantises. i found a website in the uk that sells all types, and when the giant malaysian hooded mantis goes into breeding season, im gonna be all over that.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

gotta love dogs, though.

i cant commit the time to a doggie, just yet, so im buying a terrarium and im going to raise some praying mantises. i found a website in the uk that sells all types, and when the giant malaysian hooded mantis goes into breeding season, im gonna be all over that.

oh oh oh , are you serious? post or PM me the link to that site would you? Thats awesome, I'm trying out my hand at some asian plants and such on my patio, including different varieties of bamboo, but to have a preying mantis would be just simply awesome!!

7sm

 

[theneuhauser]

heres a quote from the website:

Why Own a Goldfish When You Can Have a Pet That Chews On It's Partner's Head Whilst Mating?

mantisuk


im going to order an entire eggsack and try to hatch them, then they will devour eachother until only the strongest one survives!!!!!!!

 

[7starmantis]

Haha, man that is an awesome site! I'm going to show my sifu, maybe we'll get one to keep at the school, that would be cool.

7sm

 

[ekkaia]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart
7* --- I don't think all of the styles are supposed to be "exact" imitations of the animals they're named after. I think some of the them are more about capturing the spirit or essance of that animal.

Besides... how could Lung Ying (Dragon Form boxing) come about? I missed the dragons myself! Like you as well, I wouldn't wanna get caught watching a tiger too closely!!! I tabby cat that weighs several hundred pounds & has a paw bigger than my head with a bad attitude is not going put up with me doing something like that!

i know this thread is a little old but thought i'd reply to it anyway. lung ying (aka. dragon style) is usually accredited to a monk called tai yuk. he was the head abbot at wah so toi temple (on luo fo shan in guangdong province) and had learnt some of his kung fu from ng mui (yes of wing chun fame). ng mui specialised in dragon from 5 animals (before creating wing chun of course), so i guess that's where it all started from. however tai yuk refined what ng mui had taught him and passed it down to lam yiu gwai, who is now considered the grandmaster of the style.

if you research into shaolin dragon 5 animal history, it of course was not derived from watching any dragon, but the concept of internal movement is most important. it tries to capture the 'essence' of a dragon rather than it's imagined physical movements (though i would argue the coiling movement of a dragon is very much an important part of lung ying training). so whilst shaolin dragon and lung ying don't really look much alike anymore, the concepts are still somewhat similar.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by ekkaia
(though i would argue the coiling movement of a dragon is very much an important part of lung ying training

Could you expand on this? I'm not familiar with dragon style.

 

[ekkaia]

the dragon style i speak of is southern dragon of guangdong province. i know 'dragon style' is considered a generic term for *all* types of dragon styles, but lung ying literally translates to dragon style/shape/boxing in english...

anyway, what i meant by 'mimicking' the coiling dragon movement is the internal power generation of a lung ying practitioner. the method of generating power is for the chi to generate from the ground, gather at the dan tien, and executed out through the arms or legs, then the energy gets 'pulled' back into the dan tien, then out again and repeats in a cycle until the opponent is defeated. it is like the energy of the dragon starting from the tail, coiling through the body, out through the mouth, back in again, etc. of course when a person does this is it not very obvious, but the concept of melding with an opponent is very important. the footwork of a practitioner uses the same concept or intent i should say of wanting to meld/overwhelm with an opponent. hence why alot of the techniques are circular so it is easy to meld.

i hope i made some sense, but i'm in a rush so i'll post a better response later on if it didn't.