Amanda Knox

[Empty Hands]

Er, that's why I said 'understandable' in my post! It's also what she was paying for when she engaged the PR company.

So why does it seem to bother you so? You've said that you find the campaign to "whitewash" her objectionable, and yet the only people you can seem to point to that are responsible are her parents and the people her parents have hired! If the New York Times was doing it I might understand your outrage, but all we seem to have so far is that you are upset that her parents are defending their daughter.

 

[Tez3]

So why does it seem to bother you so? You've said that you find the campaign to "whitewash" her objectionable, and yet the only people you can seem to point to that are responsible are her parents and the people her parents have hired! If the New York Times was doing it I might understand your outrage, but all we seem to have so far is that you are upset that her parents are defending their daughter.

Bother and outrage? That's what you see? It's not what I feel I have to say, can't we discuss something without there being florid emotions falsely being attributed?

It's not the only people I point to, a million dollar PR campaign has produced more than the parents saying their daughter is an angel. As I said I can undrstand why, who's parents wouldn't do the same but there is also a cynical side to all this.

the New York Times?
here http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/u...n-image.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

"But by the time she was freed from an Italian prison on Monday, her public portrayal was very different: Many media accounts in the United States, at least, portrayed Ms. Knox as a nice young woman, a linguistics major at the University of Washington, who had fallen victim to the Italian justice system while on her junior year abroad.
No one can say for sure whether the painstaking and calculated rehabilitation of her image helped sway the Italian courts. Ultimately, it was an official report casting doubt on the DNA evidence in the case that led to her exoneration. But the media frenzy was mentioned by both the prosecution and the defense last month in court. "

 

[Steve]

Tez, just want to point out that from what I've read, the family spent over a million dollars, but not all on PR. They hired a local PR firm to help bring attention to their daughter's situation and to help them avoid doing anything that would unintentionally harm her case in Italy. It was, in my opinion, a pretty smart thing to do. And in retrospect, helping to make sure that she wasn't vilified in the press seems to have had a positive effect on the trial. I'm not sure what parent would do otherwise.

But a lot of the money the spent was on maintaining an apartment in Perugia, flying back and forth and to hire legal counsel. And they got the million dollars, by all accounts I've seen, by piling up debt to their eyeballs.

Again, to the original point I was making, it's interesting that to you the family is "rich". You've referred to them as rich several times. From where I'm at, they're a family much like mine. I'm not poor. In fact, I'd say I'm doing pretty well. But I wouldn't characterize myself as rich. That's the way that they've been painted in the British media, it seems, but I don't think that's the case. Based on what I've read, the mom's family is squarely in the middle, while the dad might be eking toward the upper-middle income.

I think the next step is that people are going to presume the worst when Amanda sells the rights to the book or movie or what have you. But again, from where I'm at, I think it's about the only way that family will climb out from under the massive cost of an international legal battle.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, just want to point out that from what I've read, the family spent over a million dollars, but not all on PR. They hired a local PR firm to help bring attention to their daughter's situation and to help them avoid doing anything that would unintentionally harm her case in Italy. It was, in my opinion, a pretty smart thing to do. And in retrospect, helping to make sure that she wasn't vilified in the press seems to have had a positive effect on the trial. I'm not sure what parent would do otherwise.

But a lot of the money the spent was on maintaining an apartment in Perugia, flying back and forth and to hire legal counsel. And they got the million dollars, by all accounts I've seen, by piling up debt to their eyeballs.

Again, to the original point I was making, it's interesting that to you the family is "rich". You've referred to them as rich several times. From where I'm at, they're a family much like mine. I'm not poor. In fact, I'd say I'm doing pretty well. But I wouldn't characterize myself as rich. That's the way that they've been painted in the British media, it seems, but I don't think that's the case. Based on what I've read, the mom's family is squarely in the middle, while the dad might be eking toward the upper-middle income.

I think the next step is that people are going to presume the worst when Amanda sells the rights to the book or movie or what have you. But again, from where I'm at, I think it's about the only way that family will climb out from under the massive cost of an international legal battle.

In America class seems to be based on how much money you have, in Europe and the UK class isn't to do with money. I've noticed on here too that a good many of you think you don't earn a lot but you earn far more than most Europeans do. If the British press is saying they are rich it's because they are by our standards. The average pay here is said to be £21,000 ($32407) with most actually earning far less. The clerks and admin assistants in the Civil Service are on £11,000 a year. Looking at Mcdonalds the lowest pay in America is $7.50 an hour, here it's £3.80....$1.55. So even your McD's workers earn more than ours.

 

[Steve]

In America class seems to be based on how much money you have, in Europe and the UK class isn't to do with money. I've noticed on here too that a good many of you think you don't earn a lot but you earn far more than most Europeans do. If the British press is saying they are rich it's because they are by our standards. The average pay here is said to be £21,000 ($32407) with most actually earning far less. The clerks and admin assistants in the Civil Service are on £11,000 a year. Looking at Mcdonalds the lowest pay in America is $7.50 an hour, here it's £3.80....$1.55. So even your McD's workers earn more than ours.

Being rich is based on money. Class has more to do with lifestyle, although income is a big part of that. Sure.

Regarding wages, I don't know what to say about that. Wages are what they are. Cost of living is pretty high, as well. I don't know what the comparisons are to you. All I can tell you is that, based on what I've seen, the parents of Amanda Knox aren't "rich."

Or maybe I AM rich, and just don't know it. I don't feel rich.

 

[elder999]

Her parents aren't rich: they both remortgaged their homes (they're divorced).Her grandmother-I don't know which parent's mother it is-mortgaged herhome. There were substantial donations from supporters in Washington. THey maxxed out all their credit cards-in short, they did what any parent who had no doubt about their child's innocence would do, which is WHATEVER THEY COULD to make sure their child got home. Her mom's a math teacher, and her dad was a VP at Macy's-solidly upper middle class, but not necessarily "rich." A rich person wouldn't have had to refinance the house.

Oh, and don't you know, Irene? In America, we have a classless society. :lfao:

 

[crushing]

The prosecutors are engaging in their own PR campaign to lay the blame for their failure to prosecute on another PR campaign. I'm not buying it. A PR campaign did not lead to the lack of forensic evidence. It also implies that Italian jurors may be weak minded and easily swayed despite the evidence or lack thereof.

At least Ms. Knox only served four years before being released, unlike the Texas man that was exonerated and released this week after serving 25 years for the murder of his wife. That has to be one of the most heartbreaking things. Not only to lose a family member to murder, but then to be falsely accused and convicted of killing that family member.

 

[habber]

In the Seattle area, she's big news. While I haven't paid much attention, it's been all over the media around here.

Tez, I don't know about that. There has been a ton of information flowing around about the trial, and there is plenty of information online for those interested enough to look for it. And here in the Seattle area, I can assure you many are.

I'm not saying that you're wrong or right. Just that I find it interesting that you kind of presume she's guilty, where I've not run into that here. Most people around here are sympathetic, and the parents have been regulars on the local talk radio shows.

If she did "get away with it" the noteriety isnt going away anytime soon.

 

[habber]

I saw that she was found guilty of what seems to amount to slander.

Tez, so, if I understand right, the prosecution can appeal the acquittal? That's interesting. I didn't know that.

It did serve to demonstarte how screwed up the Italian legal system is.

 

[Tez3]

The prosecutors are engaging in their own PR campaign to lay the blame for their failure to prosecute on another PR campaign. I'm not buying it. A PR campaign did not lead to the lack of forensic evidence. It also implies that Italian jurors may be weak minded and easily swayed despite the evidence or lack thereof.

At least Ms. Knox only served four years before being released, unlike the Texas man that was exonerated and released this week after serving 25 years for the murder of his wife. That has to be one of the most heartbreaking things. Not only to lose a family member to murder, but then to be falsely accused and convicted of killing that family member.

If she had been found not guilty of the murder she would still have gone to prison as she was sentenced to three years for criminal defamation.
That she lied over that casts doubts on whether she has told the truth, part of the truth or lied all the way though.

Class here is decided by complicated social rules, you can be upper class and very poor or very rich but still working class. It's about breeding, language, taste and other indicators nothing really to do with money.Both the upper class and the working class don't really like the middle class. The phrase 'middle class values' is often used as an insult.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

Having your own house even if you have a mortgage is considered being rich by a great many here and even more so in Europe. Having credit cards is unobtainable for many here as they don't earn enough to get one. Italy is poorer than the UK, Spain and Poortugal even more than Italy. Greece is extremely poor.

Is the Italian justice system screwed up? I don't know and honestly I don't know if many non Italians know how it works to criticise it properly other than just say 'oh it's corrupt', it may be or it may just work completely differently from the way we are used to.

 

[Tez3]

The Appeal Judge speaks.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141087126

 

[Sukerkin]

I find it odd how the appeals system works in Italy. Only the weakest evidence from the previous trial is revisited, or at least that is the understanding I have garnered from reading about this case. Given that there is seldom one 'point' of evidence which clinches guilt or innocence that does strike me as a terrible way of going about things as circumstantial evidence is very easy to gainsay or cast in a doubtful light.

I also find it of interest to see how differently we judge 'wealth' from our respective sides of the Pond. I can't speak to America as I've never spent time there other than in airports. But in Canada, people earn twice as much as their British counterparts and everything costs about half as much (or less). I recall getting a pair of 501's in Calgary for the equivalent of a tenner whereas if I'd bought them at 'home' they'd've been in the order of £75 - £ 100.