Am I using a dolyo chagi chamber for a yeop chagi here? (VIDEO)=

[andyjeffries]

I was mostly talking about the discussion of turning vs. side kicks. My training includes a very small number of kicks, and a lot of what the "kickers" on here talk about is very over my head.

If you want anything explaining in more detail, let me know. I'm happy to use some YouTube clips and video analysis software to explain further.

 

[andyjeffries]

Yet basics in the dojang usually drill rear leg side kicks, not the lead one. It's good for a personal challenge to be great at them but not much else.

If talking about for sparring, most modern dojangs drill lead leg cut or stab kicks, which is like a sparring front leg side kick. But when training for sparring, instructors are often less worried about technical form, but speed (both in terms of impact speed and the total wall clock time of the kick).

However, when doing that you generally teach to lift the leg, then travel - rather than the more basic skipping motion (back leg first). The reason is in modern Taekwondo, the first one to get their leg above their opponents in a cut/stab kick race wins, so if you go back leg moves first you move towards your opponent body first - and the opponent can lift their front leg to cut your motion. If you go leg first, they have a leg to contend with (and there are options for that, clashing for one) but it makes it harder. Here's a video example of the motion I'm talking about (ignore the head kick counter to the re-movement, but just the initial lead leg cut kick)

 

[Acronym]

If talking about for sparring, most modern dojangs drill lead leg cut or stab kicks, which is like a sparring front leg side kick. But when training for sparring, instructors are often less worried about technical form, but speed (both in terms of impact speed and the total wall clock time of the kick).

However, when doing that you generally teach to lift the leg, then travel - rather than the more basic skipping motion (back leg first). The reason is in modern Taekwondo, the first one to get their leg above their opponents in a cut/stab kick race wins, so if you go back leg moves first you move towards your opponent body first - and the opponent can lift their front leg to cut your motion. If you go leg first, they have a leg to contend with (and there are options for that, clashing for one) but it makes it harder. Here's a video example of the motion I'm talking about (ignore the head kick counter to the re-movement, but just the initial lead leg cut kick)

Basics in a class does not usually refer to sparring techniques unless it's a sport oriented school

 

[Acronym]

Then it would not be a side kick. The two kicks use different muscle groups and body posture/rotation.

It would be in the end motion

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you want anything explaining in more detail, let me know. I'm happy to use some YouTube clips and video analysis software to explain further.

I appreciate the offer. Honestly, it may be not worth the effort, given how thin my background in kicks is (none of my instructors put any emphasis on them - I was the best kicker at the school, excepting those who trained in other styles). I’m unlikely to gain much insight without some coaching. My “someday, maybe” list includes some private instruction in kicks from a TKD instructor.

 

[Acronym]

How do you rate this delivery 1-10?

Look at how he changes his mechanics when hitting the shield and suddenly makes a pushing kick. That's because the way he was doing it in the forms had no power and would just bounce off it.

 

[andyjeffries]

How do you rate this delivery 1-10?

Look at how he changes his mechanics when hitting the shield and suddenly makes a pushing kick. That's because the way he was doing it in the forms had no power and would just bounce off it.

Ignoring his arms, I think his back leg side kick is really good, maybe 8/10. His arms throw me off because he's doing the ITF arms thing and it feels very formal and artificial to my Kukkiwon eyes.

His mechanics change when he hits the shield because he leans in to the kick. This is natural - when doing this kick, if you put bodyweight behind it you will naturally fall forwards more, which is not desirable during forms. However if you watch the acceleration when he kicks the shield, it's not a pushing motion but an accelerating kick.

I would argue a pushing motion is a slower foot to target, then accelerate dramatically once contact is made (whereas a strike is an acceleration from the start until just after the target). That's how you'd describe the difference if you were thinking palm heel. I could accelerate all the way to hit with the palm heel and it would feel differently to if I just did an open hand push - and the difference comes in the part/speed of the motion BEFORE the striking part makes contact, not in the bodyweight used during the motion.

 

[Acronym]

I would argue a pushing motion is a ll forwards more, which is not desirable during forms. However if you watch the acceleration when he kicks the shield, it's not a pushing motion but an accelerating kick.
slower foot to target, then accelerate dramatically once contact is made (whereas a strike is an acceleration from the start until just after the target). That's how you'd describe the difference if you were thinking palm heel. I could accelerate all the way to hit with the palm heel and it would feel differently to if I just did an open hand push - and the difference comes in the part/speed of the motion BEFORE the striking part makes contact, not in the bodyweight used during the motion.

Fair enough but his lead leg side kicks are worse than his rear legs: starting at 2:40. And you said those are easier..

I give it a 6.5 overall. His lead leg legs I don't give more than 6.

 

[Acronym]

Ignoring his arms, I think his back leg side kick is really good, maybe 8/10. His arms throw me off because he's doing the ITF arms thing and it feels very formal and artificial to my Kukkiwon eyes.

His mechanics change when he hits the shield because he leans in to the kick. This is natural - when doing this kick, if you put bodyweight behind it you will naturally fall forwards more, which is not desirable during forms. However if you watch the acceleration when he kicks the shield, it's not a pushing motion but an accelerating kick.

I would argue a pushing motion is a slower foot to target, then accelerate dramatically once contact is made (whereas a strike is an acceleration from the start until just after the target). That's how you'd describe the difference if you were thinking palm heel. I could accelerate all the way to hit with the palm heel and it would feel differently to if I just did an open hand push - and the difference comes in the part/speed of the motion BEFORE the striking part makes contact, not in the bodyweight used during the motion.

The distinction in punching is snapping/twisting the shoulder vs pushing your shoulder forward. So one would think there's a similar distinction for kicking.

 

[Earl Weiss]

And to be honest, I don't want to waste time on Rear leg side kicks because they are almost never used in sparring. They take too to long to reach the target.

The flaw in your reasoning is assuming you initiate with the rear leg. The kick is very effective if set up as part of a combination often initiating the combination with the lead hand or leg. Plenty of MMA and other videos out there where the opponent was knocked out with the rear leg side kick.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Side kicks in patterns are rear leg....

Not always , at least not in the Chang Hon System.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yet basics in the dojang usually drill rear leg side kicks, not the lead one. It's good for a personal challenge to be great at them but not much else.

Some MMA fighters (I.e. Cung Lee) have used the lead leg side kick quite effectively.

 

[Acronym]

Some MMA fighters have used the lead leg side kick quite effectively.

There are plenty of things that work in MMA against non kickers that do not work against Taekwondo fighters.

Not always , at least not in the Chang Hon System.

Which pattern has a lead leg side kick?

 

[Earl Weiss]

There are plenty of things that work in MMA against non kickers that do not work against Taekwondo fighters.



Which pattern has a lead leg side kick?

Off the top of my head - All patterns that do the SPK from Bending Ready Stance A. Won Hyo, Yul Guk, it is the lead leg in that stance. Kwang Gae has it follow the Side Pressing Kick,

 

[Acronym]

Off the top of my head - All patterns that do the SPK from Bending Ready Stance A. Won Hyo, Yul Guk, it is the lead leg in that stance. Kwang Gae has it follow the Side Pressing Kick,

Bending ready stance is a static push off. Doing these in isolation will not make you anymore proficient at in motion lead leg side kicks since they are more dynamic

 

[Acronym]

I'll be more precise: Patterns do not contain skipping lead leg side kicks.

 

[Acronym]

Hah! He doesn't use sine wave and he's still affiliated with the ITF.

How on earth was he allowed to get graded to 5th Dan by the organization?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Fair enough but his lead leg side kicks are worse than his rear legs: starting at 2:40. And you said those are easier..

I give it a 6.5 overall. His lead leg legs I don't give more than 6.

I find lead-leg side kicks harder to do. Power is harder for me to generate.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The distinction in punching is snapping/twisting the shoulder vs pushing your shoulder forward. So one would think there's a similar distinction for kicking.

I don’t follow that distinction. Can you rephrase it for me?

 

[dvcochran]

It would be in the end motion

No, just a messed up kick for most people. Not quite a side kick, not quite a roundhouse. There is a Lot more going on than what you video and comments are saying. Keep practicing.