am i over looking judo for real self defence?

[ballen0351]

Its an accurate generalization.

No its not

BJJ training starts at knee level for most of the training.

where? what school? you have been to all BJJ schools to know they dont work on takedowns?

The current hierachy in Grappling goes BJJ/SW→Wrestling→Judo.

Says who?

Judo is not required for MMA.

Nothing is Required for MMA.

 

[Laplace_demon]

No its not

you have been to all BJJ schools

Do you know what a generalization is?

BJJ/SW is required in MMA. Not only because Its a sport but the fact the rest of the guys train both striking and BJJ.Even accomplished wrestlers learn BJJ or SW

 

[ballen0351]

Do you know what a generalization is?

Yes and your still wrong

BJJ/SW is required in MMA. Not only because Its a sport but the fact the rest of the guys train both striking and BJJ.Even accomplished wrestlers learn BJJ or SW

No its not REQUIRED. Nothing is REQUIRED. Plenty of MMA fighters train in Judo

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Bodyslam supporters in here, if it's so easy to pull off why not "lift" BJJ guys up in the air and dump them on their head. BJJ training starts at knee level (they rarely train takedowns). Should be an easy win for Judo vs BJJ.

What context are you speaking of here? MMA? Grappling competition? Street fight?

The BJJ specialists who compete in MMA have all done extensive training in takedowns (executing them, countering them, and breakfalling safely when being taken down).

Grappling competitions vary in their rules, Judo tournaments favor judo players, BJJ competitions favor BJJ players.

For a street fight, a lot would depend on the individuals and whether they trained for street application or not. A BJJ player from a school where they only practiced from their knees would indeed be in danger of being slammed into the sidewalk by the judo player.

Yet BJJ is all we here about, and not Judo.

Who is "we" and in what context are you "hearing about" one or the other?

Its an accurate generalization. BJJ training starts at knee level for most of the training. The current hierachy in Grappling goes BJJ/SW→Wrestling→Judo. Judo is not required for MMA.

Speaking as a BJJ practitioner, I have no idea where you are getting this hierarchy from or what it means.

If you're talking about MMA, then wrestling would probably be the most valuable single background. However based on your earlier comments regarding TKD and strikers vs grapplers, I thought you were saying that MMA doesn't prove anything?

 

[Tez3]

In the UK and Europe I would say that Judo is probably the best known of all martial arts, it has been around a very long time here since the late 19th century. France especially is a huge Judo country with their Olympic team being famous, the UK has more famous Judoka than any other martial artists. Judo is known through films, novels and television programmes such as The Avengers a 60's series where one of the characters played by Honor Blackman ( I saw her recently if anyone remembers here at Comic Con, she's in her late eighties and looks fabulous!) famously used Judo. Many of our MMA fighters started in Judo, they have also go on to BJJ but that's natural the same way they train some boxing, MT and anything else they think will improve their game. Wrestling isn't so common here as we don't have the school/college background in it but some of the old catch wrestlers have started up again teaching which is great both for it's own sake and MMA.

 

[Tez3]

The history of Judo in the UK, interesting in itself but if you look at the bottom of the page you will find British Judo's partners, one of them being the UFC.
The History of Judo British Judo Association

 

[Tez3]

I was going to post the following in the women's martial arts section or even just the Judo one but on consideration because of the self defence comments on it I thought I would post it here. Early on Judo was thought to be very good for women for the purposes of self defence, I don't believe that either Judo or the need for female self defence has changed much in a century so I believe this is a valid contribution to this thread. That is also contains history about women in Judo is a bonus

InYo women s judo 1900-1945 Svinth

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I was going to post the following in the women's martial arts section or even just the Judo one but on consideration because of the self defence comments on it I thought I would post it here. Early on Judo was thought to be very good for women for the purposes of self defence, I don't believe that either Judo or the need for female self defence has changed much in a century so I believe this is a valid contribution to this thread. That is also contains history about women in Judo is a bonus

InYo women s judo 1900-1945 Svinth

Photographs of "Mrs. Garrud, a well-known Suffragette," throwing a uniformed British policeman appeared in the London Sketch on July 6, 1910. Soon after, Punch printed a cartoon showing uniformed policemen cowering before a solitary "Ju-Jutsu Suffragette."

What we may expect when our women all become Ju-Jutsu Suffragettes. By R.Wallis Mills, originally in Punch, and reprinted in Health& Strength, July 23, 1910.

Wait, judo/ju-jutsu leads women to be suffragettes? Wanting to vote and be equal members of society and be treated like human beings rather than chattel? Sounds like a dangerous influence to me!

 

[ballen0351]

Suffragettes?

 

[Tez3]

The Suffragettes in fact had bodyguards trained in Judo/Ju-jutsu and if it's good enough for them it should be good enough for anyone frankly! It makes a nonsense of this 'Judo is useles's etc and also the Judo is unknown rubbish.
The Amazons of Edwardian London kick-*** suffragette bodyguards

 

[elder999]

I as The Avengers a 60's series where one of the characters played by Honor Blackman ( I saw her recently if anyone remembers here at Comic Con, she's in her late eighties and looks fabulous!) famously used Judo. .

For most of us on this side of the Atlantic, mention The Avengers, and it's all about Diana Rigg as Mrs. Peel. Some of us, though, remember this:

 

[Tez3]

Honor Blackman on Judo.

 

[Langenschwert]

Just when I thought I wouldn't get anything fun for Christmas, I get this thread.

 

[elder999]

Just when I thought I wouldn't get anything fun for Christmas, I get this thread.

Yeah, been more than a little amusement due to agenda troll necromancy, lately....

 

[Tez3]

and in case anyone thought Judoka were just concentrating on the sport aspect........Self Defence Commission British Judo Association

 

[Laplace_demon]

If you're talking about MMA, then wrestling would probably be the most valuable single background. However based on your earlier comments regarding TKD and strikers vs grapplers, I thought you were saying that MMA doesn't prove anything?

A wrestler cannot win on the ground against serious BJJ opposition without knowing how to defend against submissions. There are world class wrestlers and JJ guys in the UFC, but no TDK stylists. Not from my system of TKD (ITF). Never have been either.

Anything but no holds barred handicap strikers chances, since certain targets/vital points and techniques are prohibited for a striker, while the wrestler/JJ practitioner can do which ever submission and takedown he likes. He can also perform these techniques with his vital organs protected by the rules.

 

[Tez3]

There are world class wrestlers and JJ guys in the UFC, but no TDK stylists. Not from my system of TKD (ITF). Never have been either.

I'm not quite sure why as a TKD person you are telling firstly that Judo doesn't work for self defence and now that there are no TKD stylists in the UFC when I personally know at least four. I know of more than that of course but here in the UK along with Judo TKD is a serious style, it doesn't have the same reputation as it does elsewhere of being a place for children. Serious martial arts come out of the training here, like Dan Hardy for a start who will tell you that TKD is a big part of what he does. Unless you are aware of every TKD training place in the world I'd be careful about making such sweeping statements because they will be someone who can prove you wrong.
I also don't know how you can turn a thread about Judo into a hate one about MMA and one of it's top promotions the UFC.

 

[Laplace_demon]

I made it clear pure grappling is risky against pure striking in self defence, to which the user Mephisto responed with MMA. If you are interested in learning why threads take a certain path, you could always scroll back:

If mma has shown us anything it's that you can't defeat a skilled grappler with striking alone, but you can combine striking and grappling and defeat a superior grappler.

This is nonsense, since MMA competitions don't translate to real life and self defence, and the early style vs style events encompassed a VERY small fraction (like a few hundred) people competing of the worlds population.

That's how we got into grappling vs striking, since I objected to sport judo (pure grappling) being exposed to striking.

 

[Laplace_demon]

And there are no proven world class ITF TKD guys that ever competed in either style vs style or in The UFC. If there against all odds are, I can count most likeley count them on my fingers. Most if not all don't care for it - completely different sport.

And I repeat wrestling/Grappling/Judo translates better to MMA rules than a primarily striking art, IMO. The TKD guys stay at their world championships and Olympics and are happy with that.

 

[Tez3]

Look, you are entitled to your own opinion but you aren't entitled to your own facts. Repeatedly saying something does not make it true. If you want to think something is a fact well that's fine but you mustn't be surprised when people, who actually know about the style/art you are having a go at, tell you that what you say simply isn't true.
If TKD guys (you don't have women in TKD then?) are happy with what they do why are you, as one of those TKD 'guys' on here arguing the toss with people who are Judoka and MMAists? Why aren't you focussing on TKD alone?