Aikido hate

drop bear

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But it does apply. You just don't understand why because you think men brawling in the street or a bar is SD.

The difference between men brawling in a bar and self defense can be up to the quality of you lawyer.

Going back to the importance of preemptive striking. In the self defence situation you described, multiple guys ambushing you to steal your stuff. Preemptive striking is about the least useful skill you can learn.

If someone calls you out in a pub then smacking the guy off the bat and running for the door works pretty well.

You are suggesting that tactics that work for Geoff Thompson with his bouncing back ground work. And then try to suggest that pub fighting background doesn't apply.

So what grounding does Geof Thompson have in self defence? Because it sounds like your logic is shooting yourself in the foot.
 

Steve

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No it's not grey at all, fighting is illegal, SD is legal.

Why is the cop attacking me? As long as I follow his Instructions and comply with his requests he has no reason to attack.
Well, to be more accurate, fighting is fighting, and can be legal or illegal. Self defense is a legal justification for fighting. Self defense is to fighting what the morning after pill is to unprotected seX with a stranger. Taking the pill doesn't mean you didn't have sex. It simply means you won't pay for that sex for the rest of your life.
 

Martial D

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What a strange world you live in where all the Police are male.
LOL.

That's your rejoinder? I don't know what martial art you practice, but your rhetorical Kung Fu is weak. :p

A fight is a fight. The difference between self defense and a street fight is a question of why, not how or what.
 
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jobo

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Punching someone in a sport fight is not illegal, punching some one in SD is legal, punching someone in a street fight is illegal. If you injure someone in an illegal street fight you legally and financially responsible for your actions. Hence he outcome is not pretty much the same.

Further punching me in a sport or street fight doesn't mean you are acting in SD.


Quite the opposite. Assuming that Figthing is the same as SD is a very limited view born out of either ignorance to he realities of criminal violence, or the mistaken belief that if you can handle a trained fighter then an untrained criminal should present no problem. But criminals don't want to fight you. They will use deception, weapons, greater number, anything that allows them to get what they want more easily. If a fighter is mugged at knife/gun point there is no question who is the better fighter, but the other guy was was the better criminal.
street fighting isn't necessarily illegal
 

drop bear

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I don't think it is misleading, criminals do kill people everyday.

What is it you think his system is?

Well Geoff Thompson said it. So how many fights to how many deaths was he involved in?

I mean it would be tough going to work every day and having people die on you all the time.

Of course if by chance he had hundreds or thousands of fights and nobody died. Then we have a different interpretation of misleading.

By the way he has the fence. The animal day concept. ( which is hyperbole version of MMA) Some sucker punching. Some jits and some judo.
 

drop bear

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Without specifying a definition, that can easily be true. Yet people manage to have meaningful discussions using those terms on a regular basis. Why? Because either their personal usages match each other, or they find a common definition to work from. Paul and I, for instance, use "fight" very differently. But as long as we agree to use a common definition in a given discussion, we can use that word without it being meaningless.

There are some words, like "effective", that are disputed not because of the definition of the word, but because you have to decide a measurement/standard to compare against, and that's even more contentious than the definition of "self-defense".

By the way. Can you see how nuts conversations regarding self defence gets. Because nobody has the grounding and everyone is trying to beat some sort of drum. The information you actually get is so unreliable.

It is like trying to argue what colour pants god wears.

This is a very big aspect of the Aikido hate. Or any martial art that relies on this justification.

We are comparing this mentally with people who will justify their Method by grabbing you and hurting you until you have to stop.

Which is such a compelling argument as compared to what martial artists are generally used to.
 

AIKIKENJITSU

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Hello everyone,
Why does Aikido get so much hate? I realize that BJJ and MMA are very mainstream at the moment, and some of those guys are the biggest Aikido haters out there. No offense. It all boils down to: Did any of the MMA fighters do aikido?" Some people go as far as calling it ********, ineffective, a waste of time, etc. Really? I visited the local Aikido school, and I loved the atmosphere. I'd like to know what your opinion of this art is. I believe most (if not all) arts can be applied in certain scenarios. I have to admit that I am not one of those people that dream of killing/dismantling others. That's the last thing I want to to.

Thank you in advance.
Hi, I'm a old martial arts instructor. I started learning in 1970 and I still teach and work out. I wanted to learn Aikido, and I went to several schools, but what finally caught my eye was Kenpo. I earned a black belt in Tracy kenpo and then third degree black in Ed Parker (American) Kenpo. I've read legit articles and from my own experience I can tell you this about Aikido: It is only effective if you have enough room to do it. Also it isn't truly a self defense art where it can be applied in every situation. Here's an example: a black belt wrote an article in black belt magazine. He was a black belt in Aikido and also a military police overseas. When having to break up a bar fight, he was many times at a loss of what to do. Aikido just didn't cut the mustard in tight situations. He later learned a punching and kicking art and combined Aikido with it and he had a kickass art. Aikido "compliments" a punching and kicking martial art. I added the circular motion of Aikido to Kenpo in taking guys down. Remember, the Aikido creator wanted an art to profess peace and harmony with the universe.
Sifu
 

Jenna

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Hi, I'm a old martial arts instructor. I started learning in 1970 and I still teach and work out. I wanted to learn Aikido, and I went to several schools, but what finally caught my eye was Kenpo. I earned a black belt in Tracy kenpo and then third degree black in Ed Parker (American) Kenpo. I've read legit articles and from my own experience I can tell you this about Aikido: It is only effective if you have enough room to do it. Also it isn't truly a self defense art where it can be applied in every situation. Here's an example: a black belt wrote an article in black belt magazine. He was a black belt in Aikido and also a military police overseas. When having to break up a bar fight, he was many times at a loss of what to do. Aikido just didn't cut the mustard in tight situations. He later learned a punching and kicking art and combined Aikido with it and he had a kickass art. Aikido "compliments" a punching and kicking martial art. I added the circular motion of Aikido to Kenpo in taking guys down. Remember, the Aikido creator wanted an art to profess peace and harmony with the universe.
Sifu
How come you have chosen to label your self sifu and not sensei?
 

Paul_D

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Well Geoff Thompson said it. So how many fights to how many deaths was he involved in?

I mean it would be tough going to work every day and having people die on you all the time.

Of course if by chance he had hundreds or thousands of fights and nobody died. Then we have a different interpretation of misleading.

By the way he has the fence. The animal day concept. ( which is hyperbole version of MMA) Some sucker punching. Some jits and some judo.
So, for the third time of asking, what do you think his system is?
 

Paul_D

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In the self defence situation you described, multiple guys ambushing you to steal your stuff. Preemptive striking is about the least useful skill you can learn.
It is, but then SD skills don't begin and end with physical skills. Fighting doesn't teach you the non physical SD skills. That's why Maiquel Falcao and undefeated Kaue Mena ended up in hospital. They had great fighting skill, but no (non physical) SD skills to stop their situation escalating to the point of violence.
 

Paul_D

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Self defense is a legal justification for fighting.
It is. SD is legal justification for a physical response. I just choose not to label that physical response as fighting, as it leads people to believe it can resemble a consensual sport/street fight, and also that the two require the same skill set.
 

Paul_D

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in that there is no specific law against fighting. The nearest we has is affray
but that needs quite a big fight usually involving a fair number of people and indiscriminate violence
Yes whilst on paper there is no law against it, so it may appear legal, the reality is you are breaking any number of laws which will land you in trouble.
 

jobo

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Yes whilst on paper there is no law against it, so it may appear legal, the reality is you are breaking any number of laws which will land you in trouble.
such as? The police have a habit,of slapping a section 5 public order on anything they can't find a specific offence for. But other than that a consensual fight where no one wants to complain about injuries doesn't seem to break anylaws.
if you and i met up and decided to do some full bloodied sparing in the local park, there are no offences committed
 

Steve

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It is. SD is legal justification for a physical response. I just choose not to label that physical response as fighting, as it leads people to believe it can resemble a consensual sport/street fight, and also that the two require the same skill set.
There is overlap. You've said so yourself.
 

Paul_D

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what law are you quoting ?
I’m not quoting anything. As we have said whilst there is no specific law and it may therefore appear to be legal, there will be other offences that it comes under. You can be charged with common assault without even injuring someone, so if you are injuring someone there is going to be something you can be arrested for. If we are fighting in a public place and the police are called they aren’t going to let us carry on because they can’t think and anything to arrest us for. Or do you think they would?

Of course if neither of us agree to press charges we aren’t going to go to court, as the courts have too many more serious things to deal with, but the fact we decide not to press charges doesn’t mean there aren’t any.
 

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