Aikido hate

[Hornviper]

Hello everyone,
Why does Aikido get so much hate? I realize that BJJ and MMA are very mainstream at the moment, and some of those guys are the biggest Aikido haters out there. No offense. It all boils down to: Did any of the MMA fighters do aikido?" Some people go as far as calling it ********, ineffective, a waste of time, etc. Really? I visited the local Aikido school, and I loved the atmosphere. I'd like to know what your opinion of this art is. I believe most (if not all) arts can be applied in certain scenarios. I have to admit that I am not one of those people that dream of killing/dismantling others. That's the last thing I want to to.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Steve]

Hello everyone,
Why does Aikido get so much hate? I realize that BJJ and MMA are very mainstream at the moment, and some of those guys are the biggest Aikido haters out there. No offense. It all boils down to: Did any of the MMA fighters do aikido?" Some people go as far as calling it ********, ineffective, a waste of time, etc. Really? I visited the local Aikido school, and I loved the atmosphere. I'd like to know what your opinion of this art is. I believe most (if not all) arts can be applied in certain scenarios. I have to admit that I am not one of those people that dream of killing/dismantling others. That's the last thing I want to to.

Thank you in advance.

welcome to MT. just curious. How much experience do you have with BJJ, MMA or aikido?

I don't think aikido gets a lot of hate around here.

 

[ShortBridge]

Aikido might be right for you. If it felt good to you there and it interests you, why not give it a go and see what happens?

 

[Hornviper]

Thank you for your replies. I don't have any experience with BJJ and MMA, but I do know a lot of guys who do. They absolutely despise Aikido, even though they've never done it. I just wonder why. I keep hearing Aikido's the fastest way to get killed in the street. I personally doubt that but who am I to say? I am no expert whatsoever.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

As with most things it comes down to ignorance. If you look on wikipedia at how it describes Aikido you can quickly see why MMA fighters hate it:

Aikido (Japanese: 合気道 Hepburn: aikidō?) [aikiꜜdoː] is a modern Japanese martial art developed by Morihei Ueshiba as a synthesis of his martial studies, philosophy, and religious beliefs. Aikido is often translated as "the way of unifying (with) life energy"[1] or as "the way of harmonious spirit".[2] Ueshiba's goal was to create an art that practitioners could use to defend themselves while also protecting their attacker from injury.[3][4]

Aikido techniques consist of entering and turning movements that redirect the momentum of an opponent's attack, and a throw or joint lock that terminates the technique.[5]

People see words like "religious beliefs" and "life energy" and immediately group Aikido with "chi magic" practitioners. On top of that you have the whole defending yourself without harming your opponent, which in the western world (particularly for MMA fighters) to mean "I'm too weak to hurt someone and haven't got the guts to punch someone who attacks me". These things give Aikido a reputation for being useless.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think a lot of younger MMA guys hate whatever isn't MMA.

Fine with me.

I think Aikido is fine. As are many others, including MMA. I think the key is the person, not the style.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can't develop any true MA skill if you only train when your opponent cooperates with you and not train when your opponent does not. If there are Aikido tournament, Aikido reputation will be different.

 

[Steve]

Follow me here. Once again, people who have no experience with either MMA or aikido are criticizing MMAists for criticizing aikido from a position of ignorance, from a position of ignorance.

In other words, if you have no actual experience with MMA, then perhaps you should avoid doing the very thing you are criticizing others for doing.

 

[Steve]

I think a lot of younger MMA guys hate whatever isn't MMA.

Fine with me..

This is tongue in cheek. Right?

Also, it's not the person. It's how the style is trained. You could train MMA in the manner some other styles train, and it would cease to be effective.

 

[CB Jones]

Follow me here. Once again, people who have no experience with either MMA or aikido are criticizing MMAists for criticizing aikido from a position of ignorance, from a position of ignorance.

In other words, if you have no actual experience with MMA, then perhaps you should avoid doing the very thing you are criticizing others for doing.

 

[Steve]

Lol. I know it's hard to follow. Think double standard that is often indulged around here.

Simply put, if this was just a thread about aikido, fine, But for some reason, any thread like this must also include unnecessary insults to MMA, BJJ and/or the martial artists who train in them.

 

[kuniggety]

I use wristlocks from aikido while doing BJJ. So, there.

 

[Tez3]

I don't know any MMA people who hate actually Aikido, they are usually like most TMA people, too busy training to actually go round actively hating other styles. They may have looked at aikido and taken anything they personally find useful from it, as they/we do with a lot of styles but no one has the time or interest to actually indulge in hating.
I think what most MMA people do, again like TMA people, is look at a style, say 'it's not for me' and then forget about it.
Threads like this do nothing to either help Aikido or MMA, just saying that 'MMA people hate Aikido' is pointless unless you want to start arguments between MMA people and others. It's another let's bash MMA thread. Well, let's not this time.

 

[Headhunter]

Haven't got an opinion since I've never done it and I think your confusing practitioners to fans. I've only ever seen hate for any martial art on YouTube comment sections with dumb comments like "Conor mcgregor would destroy that guy" or nonsense like that. If you liked it then that's all that matters.

It also doesn't really help the biggest representation of aikido is Steven segal. Who is pretty much considered a joke what with him telling everyone that he taught Anderson silva how to do a front kick

 

[Jenna]

Hello everyone,
Why does Aikido get so much hate? I realize that BJJ and MMA are very mainstream at the moment, and some of those guys are the biggest Aikido haters out there. No offense. It all boils down to: Did any of the MMA fighters do aikido?" Some people go as far as calling it ********, ineffective, a waste of time, etc. Really? I visited the local Aikido school, and I loved the atmosphere. I'd like to know what your opinion of this art is. I believe most (if not all) arts can be applied in certain scenarios. I have to admit that I am not one of those people that dream of killing/dismantling others. That's the last thing I want to to.

Thank you in advance.

Some times Aikido practitioners are their own worst enemy. Some times Aikidoka are hypocrites and are poor representatives of their art. Some times Aikidoka are full of xxxx.

Other times practitioners of other arts have misinformed preconceptions.. that might be based on youtube nonsense or Aikido tall tales.. all art have this.. is understandable Aikido must be felt, and but moreover, the goal and means of Aikido practice is wholly dissimilar from the goal and means of other arts and it is forgiveable that non Aikido practitioners can comment without accurate experience.

Then again, maybe other times people just like hatin on some thing.. Thing is.. if I decide to tell you your art is ineffective and I have no experience of your art, why would you even value my opinion enough to care?

Wishes xx

 

[Buka]

Welcome to MT, Hornviper.

Don't know how much of that hating actually goes on, but, haters gonna' hate, bro. Screw em'.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you for your replies. I don't have any experience with BJJ and MMA, but I do know a lot of guys who do. They absolutely despise Aikido, even though they've never done it. I just wonder why. I keep hearing Aikido's the fastest way to get killed in the street. I personally doubt that but who am I to say? I am no expert whatsoever.

That sounds like dogma, and there's not much of a good explanation for dogma. There are reasons why people who are into MMA don't like Aikido (not the same as "despise").

What a person will like (assuming they are working from good information/understanding) will depend upon their personality and goals. Someone who competes in MMA is unlikely to find Aikido a good fit for them. And both MMA folks and BJJ folks tend to have a strong desire to see something proven against a highly skilled, fully resisting opponent (meaning competition). Aikido's principles are not designed around being usable for competition. Any skilled Aikidoka, for instance, can nullify most Aikido techniques. So, have tow skilled Aikidoka competing, and you have to stop looking for the "aiki" in your Aikido, and it starts to look more like Judo competitions. The same would be true for the Aikidoka facing anyone experienced in grappling (standing or ground). And since the opponent has a chance to study you, they know you're going to use aiki, and even the strikers will know to under-commit, taking away much of the "aiki". In a committed attack, that doesn't happen.

There's also the issue that many Aikido schools aren't very realistic in their training. Their attacks are stylized and/or antiquated. I've heard the argument made that these translate into standard modern attacks, but that's not wholly true. A chop has a different elbow (and therefore shoulder) position than a round punch, for instance. And many Aikido schools do not teach effective strikes, which should be a component in any combat training.

It all depends what the purpose of your training is, whether Aikido is a good fit. For the purposes and mindset of MMA and BJJ guys, it often isn't.

 

[drop bear]

And both MMA folks and BJJ folks tend to have a strong desire to see something proven against a highly skilled, fully resisting opponent (meaning competition). Aikido's principles are not designed around being usable for competition. Any skilled Aikidoka, for instance, can nullify most Aikido techniques. So, have two skilled Aikidoka competing, and you have to stop looking for the "aiki" in your Aikido, and it starts to look more like Judo competitions. The same would be true for the Aikidoka facing anyone experienced in grappling (standing or ground). And since the opponent has a chance to study you, they know you're going to use aiki, and even the strikers will know to under-commit, taking away much of the "aiki". In a committed attack, that doesn't happen.

Relying on the other guy to attack you right is pretty low percentage.

But in a fight you need pressure as much as you need aki. If you are relying only on aki you are only using half the method from a fighting point of view.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Relying on the other guy to attack you right is pretty low percentage.

But in a fight you need pressure as much as you need aki. If you are relying only on aki you are only using half the method from a fighting point of view.

It's not about "attacking right" - it's about committed attacks that commit weight. Trained folks know better. Before MMA, a lot of strikers who competed only against strikers could be found doing precisely that. And from a self-defense perspective, well-controlled attacks (like most competition attacks) are not the norm from angry or desperate people. They aren't normally going to face off, wait, and feel out for a chance to attack.

And I agree that you need to be able to pressure. That's the problem with those schools that don't train strikes. Having a decent striking game is a fairly easy way to add pressure to lead into the Aikido. Mind you, the kind of pressure needed in competition (working against someone highly skilled) is different, IMO, from what is needed against an angry guy in a bar or a scared guy on the street. Probably closer to what would be needed against a cold psychopath, but those are rarer than the aforementioned.

 

[drop bear]

It's not about "attacking right" - it's about committed attacks that commit weight. Trained folks know better. Before MMA, a lot of strikers who competed only against strikers could be found doing precisely that. And from a self-defense perspective, well-controlled attacks (like most competition attacks) are not the norm from angry or desperate people. They aren't normally going to face off, wait, and feel out for a chance to attack.

And I agree that you need to be able to pressure. That's the problem with those schools that don't train strikes. Having a decent striking game is a fairly easy way to add pressure to lead into the Aikido. Mind you, the kind of pressure needed in competition (working against someone highly skilled) is different, IMO, from what is needed against an angry guy in a bar or a scared guy on the street. Probably closer to what would be needed against a cold psychopath, but those are rarer than the aforementioned.

Ok everybody uses a version of Aki in martial arts. Counterpunching uses Aki. So every martial artist is versed in attacking in a way that maximizes their chances of hurting you and leaves them the least vunerable to counter attack. This is just a common sense aproach to training.

It sounds like you are trying to say what doesn't work in training will work in self defence due to some sort of fundimental shift in the dynamics of fighting.

That is not the case. If anything moves are harder to pull off if someone is attacking full noise.

If your system only works against a trained oponant or only works against an untrained oponant then you dont have a well rounded system. And you will loose application.

Yes striking creates opportunities for pressure and aki.

Grappling also creates oppotunities for pressure and aki.