Aikido has no reason to prove itself!

Anarax

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
960
Reaction score
312
Location
New Mexico
Not the technique failing...but the reaction of the instructor.
Though I agree with you that the instructor failed to effectively execute the technique, the training methodology is what shaped his inability to do so effectively.
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,501
Location
Manchester UK
Yeah. When technically you could go anywhere and see the same results.

I don't know many reputable fighters who think Aikido has much meril
you could go anywhere and see the same result as something which hasnt been done to give a result.

how exactly does that work
 

Ivan

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
431
Reaction score
155
That's pure fantasy.
These are genuine techniques which are being demonstrated, and that is one of the philosophies they abide by too. As to whether they work or not, that's not for me to say as I have never tried them out myself.
 

Ivan

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
431
Reaction score
155
But what if the attacker doesn't commit to that punch? I've never seen videos of aikido training that account for that. If they fight the way I see them train, they're going to get baited by a fake jab and get hit with a cross every time.
I don't know. That's one of the primary ways they counter it, as to whether it works or not is something else which I can't give an informed answer on. But do consider, that many of the throws in Judo (a much more repsected martial art) are applied to fully commited punches too, yet I have no doubts a Judoka could manhandle a boxer if they were skilled enough.
 

Hanshi

Green Belt
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
147
Reaction score
97
Location
Virginia
Well, whatever the various "sides" are trying to prove is somehow missing the target. A few principles first: 1. If the attacker doesn't commit to his punch, you commit to yours. 2. Anyone can resist aikido techniques, even I can do that. 3. Resistance; when a road is blocked logic says take an alternate route. 4. Having a black belt means only that you have a black belt, nothing more. 5. NO style wins a fight! Only a person can win a fight.

Every martial art I'm aware of has been ridiculed and criticized at some point. Yes, I know black belts who couldn't punch their way out of a paper bag. I've known black belt judoka who couldn't slip a punch if they were dipped in motor oil. Sport karate/tkd/judo/mma/boxing, you name it; there are two sides to every martial art coin. I've taught both judo and aikido and consider the falls in aikido to be the much rougher of the two. Judo as well as aikido/hapkido/karate and boxing can be either a sport or a martial art and sometimes can be both at once. I'll always remember what my aikido sensei taught and this was always weapons first before empty hands. Our specialty just happened to be "environmental weapons" or any and every thing.
 

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
11,710
Reaction score
8,326
Location
Maui
I worked in a overnight arrest unit for a time. A woman, a brown belt in Karate, heard I was also a Karateka. She started to debate me on something or other.

I asked her how often they spar in her school. I will never forget her answer.

She said, Ive never actually seen sparring.

I still cant believe it. There is bs just about everywhere.
 

Shatteredzen

Purple Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
378
Reaction score
106
I worked in a overnight arrest unit for a time. A woman, a brown belt in Karate, heard I was also a Karateka. She started to debate me on something or other.

I asked her how often they spar in her school. I will never forget her answer.

She said, Ive never actually seen sparring.

I still cant believe it. There is bs just about everywhere.
Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system. - Bruce Lee

Said by the man who dropped the fixed forms, advocated strength and physical conditioning when everyone else said it made you slow, actively encouraged people to blend and mix their styles and to create their own paradigm.
 
OP
J

Jaz

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
44
Reaction score
15
I worked in a overnight arrest unit for a time. A woman, a brown belt in Karate, heard I was also a Karateka. She started to debate me on something or other.

I asked her how often they spar in her school. I will never forget her answer.

She said, Ive never actually seen sparring.

I still cant believe it. There is bs just about everywhere.
Yeah, that's crazy!!! I've spoken to a lot of people from different martial art styles who say similar things.
 

RagingBull

Green Belt
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
24
If you look at Tomiki aikido he has a system with Judo Randori ..tanto dori.
i see this as not bad & the tai sabaki to use to avoid a punch as does Wado ryu karate (shindo yoshin ryu) principles. However Wado ryu attacks straight away. nice .
 
D

Deleted member 39746

Guest
Then wear armour and perform your techniques. There are other systems that wear armor as well.


If someone from a system does not wish to participate then they do not have to participate. They can train and practice like they always have.


TLDR from since i saw this. But the funny thing is most HEMA is simulated unarmoured combat. Some groups and sports do armoured combat, but the bulk is just nessisary protection for unarmoured. and not in peroid armour.

Also as far as japan goes last i heard their training system would be, you do it right or you get hit with a bokken or shinai at close to full speed or full speed. (working up to that level at least) Need to look that one up to see if its true though, i think they did that is all i can say. In a similar way you would get thawaked in HEMA if you did something wrong. Great incentive to do it right though. And it also helps the person attacking learning as well if they just pull the last second.

Addendum: But yes you should use what ever PPE you deem appriapriate and nesssiary or the law dicates you should use.
 

Mider

Green Belt
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
122
Reaction score
19
Every art has to prove itself, having said that I think it does prove itself effective, the issue is how people train and lean how to use it.

There are decent Aikido channels in YouTube like Aikidoflow or Warriors TV

Rokas failed in aikido, thats on him, he should have pressure tested it, made it work rather then gently toss or be tossed around. Im not insulting him Im just saying there are people who make it work just fine

having said that, I think it would best when cross trained with stuff like a striking art and BJJ etc.
 

Urban Trekker

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
461
Reaction score
150
Location
Hampton, VA
Aikido has been scrutinized for a long time. Long before Rokas was born. And, to be Frank, aikidokas feel betrayed by Rokas. That's why they're says that he's the reason his aikido doesn't work. Anything to take the spotlight off of where it belongs.
 

Mider

Green Belt
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
122
Reaction score
19
Both are theoreticians. Rokas stepped into the ring with his aikido.
This makes difference.
Ok but not every art is for the ring...and no those guys use it at their work

i understand the thought that everything has to go in the ring but I dont agree, if a martial art works against the average guy then it still works.

will it work in the ring etc? No, thats why I say aikido is great with cross trained.
 

Mider

Green Belt
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
122
Reaction score
19
Aikido has been scrutinized for a long time. Long before Rokas was born. And, to be Frank, aikidokas feel betrayed by Rokas. That's why they're says that he's the reason his aikido doesn't work. Anything to take the spotlight off of where it belongs.
There is no spot light, either learn it dont, who cares what Rokas thinks...learn it or dont dont watch a YouTube video or movie and think wow that looks cool Ill waste years learning it then having it fail
 

Cynik75

Green Belt
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
181
Reaction score
73
if a martial art works against the average guy then it still works.
Untrained average Joe has 50% chance against other untrained average Johny. Untrained average Joe with the fork has more than 50%. Agressive average Joe with fork has even more. Why anybody should learn MA? Fighting untrained people is easy. The true combat value of any Martial Art we see only if the adepts are repetably able to deal with oponents more dangerous than average Joe.
 

Mider

Green Belt
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
122
Reaction score
19
Untrained average Joe has 50% chance against other untrained average Johny. Untrained average Joe with the fork has more than 50%. Agressive average Joe with fork has even more. Why anybody should learn MA? Fighting untrained people is easy. The true combat value of any Martial Art we see only if the adepts are repetably able to deal with oponents more dangerous than average Joe.
wasnt talking about an average Joe though was talking about a black belt who trains seriously in any art vs average joe

who says everyone wants to train for competition...i Mean using your logic most who train any combat sport will never be as good as the guys who make it to ufc

instead of criticizing an art Im 9f the opinion that every art has something to offer,
 

Urban Trekker

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
461
Reaction score
150
Location
Hampton, VA
There is no spot light, either learn it dont, who cares what Rokas thinks...learn it or dont dont watch a YouTube video or movie and think wow that looks cool Ill waste years learning it then having it fail

Yes, there is a spotlight. That's why this thread, and many others like it, exists here on MT. That's also why this discussion has existed long before MT, and is as old as aikido itself.

The denial that aikidokas live in never ceases to amaze me.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
20,820
Reaction score
5,695
Ok but not every art is for the ring...and no those guys use it at their work

i understand the thought that everything has to go in the ring but I dont agree, if a martial art works against the average guy then it still works.

will it work in the ring etc? No, thats why I say aikido is great with cross trained.

The problem is we can't see it working and we should be able to.
 

Urban Trekker

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
461
Reaction score
150
Location
Hampton, VA
The problem is we can't see it working and we should be able to.

We've certainly seen it fail, many times against BJJ in sparring matches all over YouTube. I mean, striking arts have a valid excuse for losing to BJJ: in a sparring session, a grappler can go full-on without injuring the sparring partner, but the striker can't do the same. Aikido guys don't have that excuse.
 
Top