Rokas Responds on Wing Chun Challenge...

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Graywalker

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Yes, there does seem to be some confusion on your part, and nothing to do with your use of the second person ("you") in the general sense. Please read post #16 above by MTW for clarification. He points out that Rokas made no claim to have knowledge of every style.

BTW I think you may have him (Rokas) confused with "that other guy" i.e. some other YouTube commentator. ....Maybe that bearded idiot who trashes all TMA and started his own style of MMA-TKD (which looks pretty pathetic). Honestly, I don't remember his name ...and don't really care to! :cool:
Ah...you are correct, my confusion is that of the other guy. And I agree, not a fan of the other guy.
 

drop bear

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So any way. Things like this will works really well to increase the depth of knowledge of wing chun.

Wing Chun Lab - Wing Chun MD

So there are definitely chunners working on providing validation to their art.

Even more clever a paid spar squad.
 

Jaz

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I actually offered to take Rokas on in a challenge match, to see if I could pit Wing Chun against him. I was willing to travel to Lithuania. Rokas got back to me, and said that he would look into coming to the UK, so that we could arrange things. Unfortunately, it looks like he decided that it was only video evidence that he was looking for...not to take anyone on in a match. I posted my challenge to him on my youtube channel and emailed his that I had done so. Hopefully, I can sort out some rounds of sparring with him instead, At least, from the video evidence he received, he seems to have gained a respect for Wing Chun. I would've loved a scrap though:)!!!! Here;s the link to my challenge video, if you wanna see it:

 

drop bear

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I actually offered to take Rokas on in a challenge match, to see if I could pit Wing Chun against him. I was willing to travel to Lithuania. Rokas got back to me, and said that he would look into coming to the UK, so that we could arrange things. Unfortunately, it looks like he decided that it was only video evidence that he was looking for...not to take anyone on in a match. I posted my challenge to him on my youtube channel and emailed his that I had done so. Hopefully, I can sort out some rounds of sparring with him instead, At least, from the video evidence he received, he seems to have gained a respect for Wing Chun. I would've loved a scrap though:)!!!! Here;s the link to my challenge video, if you wanna see it:


Curious. Why did you pick Rokus to challenge out of all the MMAers out there that you potentially could be challenging.
 
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Hanzou

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I actually offered to take Rokas on in a challenge match, to see if I could pit Wing Chun against him. I was willing to travel to Lithuania. Rokas got back to me, and said that he would look into coming to the UK, so that we could arrange things. Unfortunately, it looks like he decided that it was only video evidence that he was looking for...not to take anyone on in a match. I posted my challenge to him on my youtube channel and emailed his that I had done so. Hopefully, I can sort out some rounds of sparring with him instead, At least, from the video evidence he received, he seems to have gained a respect for Wing Chun. I would've loved a scrap though:)!!!! Here;s the link to my challenge video, if you wanna see it:


Hopefully he accepts. It would be very interesting to watch.
 
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Jaz

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Curious. Why did you pick Rokus to challenge out of all the MMAers out there that you potentially could be challenging.

When I saw Rokas' challenge video, I just thought it would be a great idea. I'm not a professional fighter and neither is Rokas. Plus, he seems like a nice guy. He just wants to find out the answers to the questions he's got about the martial arts. I've got my own questions and finding things out through a challenge match, with a like minded person seemed like a good idea. I know that he's not going to be rude about it and bad mouth me, or I him. Plus, as you can see, I'm no 20 year old . So, I don't know if it's a good idea to challenge every MMA fighter out there... especially if they are a pro!!! I'd just get demolished, no matter how good at Wing Chun I think I am.
 

drop bear

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When I saw Rokas' challenge video, I just thought it would be a great idea. I'm not a professional fighter and neither is Rokas. Plus, he seems like a nice guy. He just wants to find out the answers to the questions he's got about the martial arts. I've got my own questions and finding things out through a challenge match, with a like minded person seemed like a good idea. I know that he's not going to be rude about it and bad mouth me, or I him. Plus, as you can see, I'm no 20 year old . So, I don't know if it's a good idea to challenge every MMA fighter out there... especially if they are a pro!!! I'd just get demolished, no matter how good at Wing Chun I think I am.

Are you two even vaguely the same weight?
 

Jaz

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Are you two even vaguely the same weight?
I'm not sure about that. If we meet up to just spar, that'll be fine. We're not gonna go tear each other into pieces. Before the whole COVID-19 restricted training, I was regularly sparring guys of all different weights, in BJJ and MMA. The bigger guys don't go full out to smash the smaller guys, they try to rely on being technical.
 
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geezer

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I'm not sure about that. If we meet up to just spar, that'll be fine. We're not gonna go tear each other into pieces. Before the whole COVID-19 restricted training, I was regularly sparring guys of all different weights, in BJJ and MMA. The bigger guys don't go full out to smash the smaller guys, they try to rely on being technical.

Jaz- Good on you for extending yourself like this. And you know, it doesn't have to be a formal fight. Just some good sparring rounds where you go at at it hard and try your stuff out, then get together and discuss what worked and what didn't. I get the feeling that Rokas would be very amenable to this kind of "exploration". He comes across as more curious than dogmatic. If size, reach or weight are a major factor in the outcome, you can just take that into account when you do your analysis. Hope you can make this happen!
 
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Jaz

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Jaz- Good on you for extending yourself like this. And you know, it doesn't have to be a formal fight. Just some good sparring rounds where you go at at it hard and try your stuff out, then get together and discuss what worked and what didn't. I get the feeling that Rokas would be very amenable to this kind of "exploration". He comes across as more curious than dogmatic. If size, reach or weight are a major factor in the outcome, you can just take that into account when you do your analysis. Hope you can make this happen!
Cheers for that! Yeah, I get the same feeling that Rokas would be up for sparring rather than a formal fight. It would be great, especially going over what worked and what didn't etc. I'll let you know as soon as he gets back to me. Thanks again!!!
 

JowGaWolf

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Cheers for that! Yeah, I get the same feeling that Rokas would be up for sparring rather than a formal fight. It would be great, especially going over what worked and what didn't etc. I'll let you know as soon as he gets back to me. Thanks again!!!
You can still learn things through sparring. No need to crack head open. If you are good in Wing Chun the it should be evident even if you aren't going full blast. Sort of like when you spar against someone of a higher skill level. It doesn't take much to realize that the person has skills.
 
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MadMartigan

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I have only limited wing chun experience (6 months of 1st form). The school I trained with was a very pressure testing school... to the point that even chi sau had a great deal of realism. (I moved away, and was unable to keep going).

I would suggest that the video's comments regarding chi sau being intense but not sparring were based on an incomplete understanding of what is being done.

What I saw the senior students doing during chi sau was a constant state of forward energy. While to someone who had not experienced this feeling it may look like they are blocking the air... when trained the way these guys were doing it; it is anything but. That constant forward energy meant that, the second a weakness was found in the opponent's guard; the attack would press forward hard and fast. (Very much mimicking the fast bursts that make up real violence... not sport).

Obviously it sounds like this group was a minority in how things are commonly done. I can only say that my 20+ years of MA experience and learning was impressed.
 
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The guy is a young man that found his training incomplete. It happens in every style instead of completing his training himself he decided to go on the great explore. There used to be a saying ill teach you one half and you can complete the other side. This process probably wasn't explained to him. However he has credibly called out people to examine there martial art as so called fake or not because of weather or not it is applicable based on being complete. Because he didn't understand completing his martial arts experience. Alot of people have offered constructive criticism to help him grow on YouTube because they have noticed this. His feed is called martial arts journey and at some point he is on a journey to complete his martial arts training. YouTube itself is a big board for martial artists as it was the first service to offer a video streaming service with a open forum so people could put content like forms two person sets training mods etc. And have dialog with the person who is doing them. It also has a segment where you don't have to be an expert to be an influential person. As for skipping out on his original question and just assuming that others had not done the work to make there art useful was probably misguided. But hey it got alot of people flustered.
 

Graywalker

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The guy? Who are you talking about? Rokas ...or someone else? What is your point?
Pay attention to the OP, it helps a person to understand conversation.

But yes, for those in the back, I am talking about the Rojas fellow.
 
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geezer

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Pay attention to the OP, it helps a person to understand conversation.
But yes, for those in the back, I am talking about the Rojas fellow.
By the time we've gotten down to the bottom of page two in a thread like this, a lot of people have been referenced, so don't be affronted when I ask you to clarify ...and FWIW the man's name is Rokas, not Rojas.
 

Graywalker

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By the time we've gotten down to the bottom of page two in a thread like this, a lot of people have been referenced, so don't be affronted when I ask you to clarify ...and FWIW the man's name is Rokas, not Rojas.
By the time we've gotten down to the bottom of page two in a thread like this, a lot of people have been referenced, so don't be affronted when I ask you to clarify ...and FWIW the man's name is Rokas, not Rojas.
Not offended in the least, as for the name...auto correct.
 

Shakya

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That constant forward energy meant that, the second a weakness was found in the opponent's guard; the attack would press forward hard and fast. (Very much mimicking the fast bursts that make up real violence... not sport).

Obviously it sounds like this group was a minority in how things are commonly done. I can only say that my 20+ years of MA experience and learning was impressed.
I think this is the key to the wing chun sparring mentality, in fact - as Tony Ferguson demonstrated against Pettis in UFC - you just have to have the confidence (and thus relevant training level!) to constantly press forward and 'box them in' in order to force your opponent into a pressured spot and make them lash out in desperation.

It is not 'rushing in' hoping for the best, though. Instead, it is calmly, methodically, plodding forward in a grounded fashion towards the target with a 'long guard' (better if one has reach advantage, of course, otherwise one needs to be speedy to get into the pocket), but very few wing chunners seem to practice this very much wing chun philosophy attitude/approach in sparring.

The biggest issue, however, for wing chun in sparring/competitive MMA is that the power move is really the elbow, and not even Muay Thai spar their elbows effectively - THEY say that "it is just too dangerous" to do that, just like wing chun practitioners will say (but for some reason they are sniggered at, whilst muay thai stylists are not).

The K.O. power cannot come from wing chun fists in sparring/MMA sport fighting - those WC fists are sent out to distract and judge distance - to create openings for a speedy entry or another technique - to get into close range and to deposit the elbow 'payload,' for example.

So in fact, the wing chun sparring 'style' ends up looking a lot like muay thai - and this is probably why, for example, even though Tony Ferguson trains the elbows he finished Pettis with on a wing chun dummy, MMA fans (like Rokas) will not recognise wing chun's potency in the UFC cage - they will swear that Ferguson was doing muay thai.

On the street, however, the wing chun straight strikes such as cannon punch can aim for the throat, and come into their own in that respect. And if a strong umbrella is to hand, the knife form straight jabbing stuff can even be used. Wing chun ultimately revolves around straight line strikes from long knives and spears. Empty handed, however, then it needs to generate power from elbows, really (as a woman would), and so in sparring ends up looking like Thai kickboxing :/ . Not a problem, really, but elbows just can't really be effectively sparred outside of light sparring level, and even then it feels pathetic and pretty much useless to try.

Again, this stuff is made clear to Rokas, but he seems to be ambivalent. Perhaps it would generate less youtube clicks.
 

Tez3

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I actually offered to take Rokas on in a challenge match, to see if I could pit Wing Chun against him. I was willing to travel to Lithuania. Rokas got back to me, and said that he would look into coming to the UK, so that we could arrange things. Unfortunately, it looks like he decided that it was only video evidence that he was looking for...not to take anyone on in a match. I posted my challenge to him on my youtube channel and emailed his that I had done so. Hopefully, I can sort out some rounds of sparring with him instead, At least, from the video evidence he received, he seems to have gained a respect for Wing Chun. I would've loved a scrap though:)!!!! Here;s the link to my challenge video, if you wanna see it:


I imagine he decided video evidence would have to do because travelling to and from other countries is problematic at the moment. Look on the government's website on travel to Lithuania, visa, registration, Covid tests, 10 days self isolation when there, when you get back to UK more self isolation! Now, the length of time before restrictions are lifted look to be extended, you could both be old men before you get to meet!
Hopefully though you may get a meet up, sooner rather than later.
 
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geezer

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I imagine he decided video evidence would have to do because travelling to and from other countries is problematic at the moment. Look on the government's website on travel to Lithuania, visa, registration, Covid tests, 10 days self isolation when there, when you get back to UK more self isolation! Now, the length of time before restrictions are lifted look to be extended, you could both be old men before you get to meet!
Hopefully though you may get a meet up, sooner rather than later.
Dang, if people would just get their shots (the "jab" for you Brits) we could get out of this mess a whole lot faster!

Now I know there are plenty of places where vaccines are still not all that available, but in the more developed nations it shouldn't be that big a problem.

Here in the States, we've got plenty of vaccines. The only thing in short supply seems to be the number of brain cells! A sizable percentage of people are either against getting vaccinated or just oblivious to the need. It's like living in the movie Idiocracy! :rolleyes:
 
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