Quite right, Tez.
Of course, I muck all that up because I refuse to try and 'get to know' a girl in an environment where I have to bellow in her ear to make myself heard ... so I used to (being settled down now) talk to girls in pubs or the theatre instead :O.
On the tangential issue of 'gothdom', as rasied by ToD in somewhat negative terms, I've often gathered the intimation that what it means in the States is different from what it means over here?
I don't know about the rest of the states, because "Goth" is probably quite different in all of our subcultures here.
In sleepy 'ole Oregon, though, "Goth" is synonymous with "emo". (Overly emotional.) It's almost always used as a passive-aggressive attack on authority, while crying out for attention in that fake-suicidal attempt kind of way. It's not a healthy movement here, it's an outlet for people with high amounts of insecurity.
I understand, however that in other sub-cultures, it keeps more of the attitude that makes Gothic architecture so intriguing.
I just wanted to highlight the problem that perjorative stereotyping of any group can be a blinkering thing, leading to a distorting image that does not fit reality.
For example, I have more letters after my name than are in it and consider myself an educated, fairly civilized, man ... and my missus is a Goth and is the warmest, kindest hearted woman I've ever met (which is why I'm happy she is my missus).
Could that be so if the stereotype of Goths being miserable social misanthropes, fit only for ridicule, was true?
{irrelevant stuff edited out}
You and your missus would probably be ashamed to be represented by most of Goth culture here (in S. Oregon, specifically). It's essentially antisocial, narrow-minded, ignorant, and pandering for attention -- more or less the kind of things you've spoken out against here on this board.
So it could well be that there are some women who behave in the 'reversed psychology' manner noted in previous posts (and I agree they do exist) but there are also women who really do go out with their mates just for that reason and not to put themselves 'on show' to attract a 'mate' (however temporarily).
Perhaps, but bars around here are built and set-up for that purpose. There are no pubs. There are either - "Moe's Tavern" where most women won't go, the Country-music meat market, the punk-rock meat-market, the alternative/salsa meat market, and the Church singles groups. (Only the bravest women would venture into a Sports Bar unattached.) If my sister and her friends want to go hang out together, without being hit on, they usually go places like Applebee's or some restaurant like that that serves mixed drinks. Usually one wouldn't be approached there.
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