A question for Women. What gives?

[Touch Of Death]

I am a bartender and I do Karaoke at least once a week. I am constantly hearing women complain that they come to the bar to relax and talk to their friends, and are sick and tired of guys comming up to talk to or hit on them. personaly, I don't hit on someone unless she has exhausted herself with signals, but My question is this...
Shouldn't the bar be a place to avoid if you don't want men talking to you? Where do you think single men go on a Saturday night?
Sean

 

[shesulsa]

I think women have come to a place in society where they go bar-hopping to hang out with their buddies and relax like men used to. I think most women have finally gotten the picture that the bar is not always the greatest place to meet Mr. Right ... just Mr. Right Now which is out of trend this year.

I thought guys were on to this?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think women have come to a place in society where they go bar-hopping to hang out with their buddies and relax like men used to. I think most women have finally gotten the picture that the bar is not always the greatest place to meet Mr. Right ... just Mr. Right Now which is out of trend this year.

I thought guys were on to this?

Sure were on to the fact that you don't want unwanted attention, but just add alchohol and... Guess where you are.
Sean

 

[CoryKS]

The trick to understanding people is: don't listen to what they say, watch what they do.

 

[MA-Caver]

I think women have come to a place in society where they go bar-hopping to hang out with their buddies and relax like men used to. I think most women have finally gotten the picture that the bar is not always the greatest place to meet Mr. Right ... just Mr. Right Now which is out of trend this year.

I thought guys were on to this?

On to what?

You're right, times have changed and us Neanderthals need to understand that, but problem is ... some gals do go to the bars to find dates so perhaps wearing a sign around the neck saying "Not Horny! Not Looking!" might help distinguish the two?

 

[Andrew Green]

I think women have come to a place in society where they go bar-hopping to hang out with their buddies and relax like men used to. I think most women have finally gotten the picture that the bar is not always the greatest place to meet Mr. Right ... just Mr. Right Now which is out of trend this year.

I thought guys were on to this?

In general guys don't go to Top 40 Dance bars unless there are girls, or the possibility of girls involved. Right there is your disconnect. To males dance bars exist solely for the purpose of girls, there is no other reason to have them. If you want to relax with buddies your hitting a lounge or a pub, maybe setting up a poker table, but under no circumstances whatsoever are a group of males to hit a dance bar for a "boys night out" to dance with each other, and reject any and all female advances. It is in the guy code, the law is punishable by complete forfeiture of manhood.

Females on the other hand are a strange sort of people, many of which actually think dance bars are a place to go and dance with friends, to perhaps and to dance with friends, not out of hope for romantic encounters afterwards, but because they think it's fun. No one is really sure why, many people believe it was a joke played on men by some higher power.

 

[CoryKS]

There are several explanations for this behavior:

- It's a form of validation. Since it's be bad form to brag, you phrase it as a complaint. This could be for the benefit of her friends, in whose eyes she wants to be seen in a positive light, or as a display of value for you, sexy bartender that you are.

Example:
"OMG, it's soooo hard to find good tires for a BMW." (I have a BMW.)
"I hate it when all these guys hit on me." (A lot of guys find me attractive.)

- Another option is that she doesn't mind being hit on, but only by the guys she wants to hit on her. Which is hopelessly naive.

- Or the simplest possibility, which is that she really expects to go to a social environment that is a known destination for single people trying to meet other single people, and not get hit on. That's just ridiculous. And it's unfair, not only to the men in the establishment, but to the women who do want guys to approach them. Just be polite and let it be known you're not playing tonight.

 

[Cruentus]

I am a bartender and I do Karaoke at least once a week. I am constantly hearing women complain that they come to the bar to relax and talk to their friends, and are sick and tired of guys comming up to talk to or hit on them. personaly, I don't hit on someone unless she has exhausted herself with signals, but My question is this...
Shouldn't the bar be a place to avoid if you don't want men talking to you? Where do you think single men go on a Saturday night?
Sean

Many people are pretty much stupid, and that is why you hear the complaining.

Simply put, some women thrive on attention, and get a self esteem boost by dissing men and bitching about it while continuing to frequent places (like certain bars or dance clubs) where it is perfectly reasonable that they would be approached. The same reason the girl who wears revealing clothing that tests social boundries complains that men are looking at her boobs. It makes them feel wanted and important. And, it is disfunctional.

That is the majority of the reason for the complaining, I think. There are many places where women can go (bars and restaurants) to dance or hang out with friends where it much less likely that they will be hit on. But for some reason it is more fun for some people to go elsewhere and complain... :idunno:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Many people are pretty much stupid, and that is why you hear the complaining.

Simply put, some women thrive on attention, and get a self esteem boost by dissing men and bitching about it while continuing to frequent places (like certain bars or dance clubs) where it is perfectly reasonable that they would be approached. The same reason the girl who wears revealing clothing that tests social boundries complains that men are looking at her boobs. It makes them feel wanted and important. And, it is disfunctional.

That is the majority of the reason for the complaining, I think. There are many places where women can go (bars and restaurants) to dance or hang out with friends where it much less likely that they will be hit on. But for some reason it is more fun for some people to go elsewhere and complain... :idunno:

I suppose it is kin to dressing up goth and openly complaining when someone stares.
Sean

 

[Tez3]

One reason we have pubs and clubs not bars, pubs are for everyone to have a quiet drink etc, clubs are for dancing and chatting up.

 

[Sukerkin]

Quite right, Tez.

Of course, I muck all that up because I refuse to try and 'get to know' a girl in an environment where I have to bellow in her ear to make myself heard ... so I used to (being settled down now) talk to girls in pubs or the theatre instead :O.

On the tangential issue of 'gothdom', as rasied by ToD in somewhat negative terms, I've often gathered the intimation that what it means in the States is different from what it means over here?

I just wanted to highlight the problem that perjorative stereotyping of any group can be a blinkering thing, leading to a distorting image that does not fit reality.

For example, I have more letters after my name than are in it and consider myself an educated, fairly civilized, man ... and my missus is a Goth and is the warmest, kindest hearted woman I've ever met (which is why I'm happy she is my missus).

Could that be so if the stereotype of Goths being miserable social misanthropes, fit only for ridicule, was true?

{irrelevant stuff edited out}

So it could well be that there are some women who behave in the 'reversed psychology' manner noted in previous posts (and I agree they do exist) but there are also women who really do go out with their mates just for that reason and not to put themselves 'on show' to attract a 'mate' (however temporarily).

 

[Drac]

I think women have come to a place in society where they go bar-hopping to hang out with their buddies and relax like men used to. I think most women have finally gotten the picture that the bar is not always the greatest place to meet Mr. Right ... just Mr. Right Now which is out of trend this year.

I thought guys were on to this?

I was..During my bouncer days I had groups of ladies come in JUST to talk and relax..If they were bothered by some idiot they had to call me me over and I waould ask if there was a problem..The girls would all point at the intruder and say " He was not invited".. Then he had to deal with me..

 

[Empty Hands]

... and my missus is a Goth and is the warmest, kindest hearted woman I've ever met (which is why I'm happy she is my missus).

The Goths are OK, it's those miserable Visigoths and Huns who are all worthless, poncy scum.

 

[Sukerkin]

ROFL - and all that burning down of villas and defacing statues malarkey ...

 

[Drac]

One reason we have pubs and clubs not bars, pubs are for everyone to have a quiet drink etc, clubs are for dancing and chatting up.

I wish we had that over here...

 

[thardey]

Quite right, Tez.

Of course, I muck all that up because I refuse to try and 'get to know' a girl in an environment where I have to bellow in her ear to make myself heard ... so I used to (being settled down now) talk to girls in pubs or the theatre instead :O.

On the tangential issue of 'gothdom', as rasied by ToD in somewhat negative terms, I've often gathered the intimation that what it means in the States is different from what it means over here?

I don't know about the rest of the states, because "Goth" is probably quite different in all of our subcultures here.

In sleepy 'ole Oregon, though, "Goth" is synonymous with "emo". (Overly emotional.) It's almost always used as a passive-aggressive attack on authority, while crying out for attention in that fake-suicidal attempt kind of way. It's not a healthy movement here, it's an outlet for people with high amounts of insecurity.

I understand, however that in other sub-cultures, it keeps more of the attitude that makes Gothic architecture so intriguing.

I just wanted to highlight the problem that perjorative stereotyping of any group can be a blinkering thing, leading to a distorting image that does not fit reality.

For example, I have more letters after my name than are in it and consider myself an educated, fairly civilized, man ... and my missus is a Goth and is the warmest, kindest hearted woman I've ever met (which is why I'm happy she is my missus).

Could that be so if the stereotype of Goths being miserable social misanthropes, fit only for ridicule, was true?

{irrelevant stuff edited out}

You and your missus would probably be ashamed to be represented by most of Goth culture here (in S. Oregon, specifically). It's essentially antisocial, narrow-minded, ignorant, and pandering for attention -- more or less the kind of things you've spoken out against here on this board.

So it could well be that there are some women who behave in the 'reversed psychology' manner noted in previous posts (and I agree they do exist) but there are also women who really do go out with their mates just for that reason and not to put themselves 'on show' to attract a 'mate' (however temporarily).

Perhaps, but bars around here are built and set-up for that purpose. There are no pubs. There are either - "Moe's Tavern" where most women won't go, the Country-music meat market, the punk-rock meat-market, the alternative/salsa meat market, and the Church singles groups. (Only the bravest women would venture into a Sports Bar unattached.) If my sister and her friends want to go hang out together, without being hit on, they usually go places like Applebee's or some restaurant like that that serves mixed drinks. Usually one wouldn't be approached there.

 

[Sukerkin]

Thanks for the Trans-Atlantic insights, Thardey :tup:. It does indeed seem as if the same word 'Goth' is used to describe very different cultural groupings in America and England. I get the impression that nihilism is high on the agenda for those that call themselves 'Goth' on American soil - a definite intimation of Marilyn Manson (sp?) wannabee-ness?

Don't get me wrong, there are Goths here who can be quite self-serving drama-queens, oh-so-weighed-down with angstyness at the woes of the world.

There are, however, those that are more properly described in terms of lovers of fine, antiquarian, clothing and a passion for the more intense enjoyment of lifes pleasures and the 'arts'.

Sadly, I do feel that, yet again, we are busy 'importing' the American version as time goes by .

 

[Drac]

Ya know what's sad??? I was Goth BEFORE they had a name...They just called me flipping weird...Born to late for somethings and too early for others..As an officer I never had a problem dealing with TRUE Goths..The Emo's should be...Never mind, family site and all that..

 

[Sukerkin]

It doesn't surprise me that you'd have an understanding of what being a 'Goth' is more properly about, Drac - in many ways that Transylvannian chap who keeps ripping off your MO was an archtype of Gothic style :tup:.

 

[exile]

The Goths are OK, it's those miserable Visigoths and Huns who are all worthless, poncy scum.

Visigoths, yes, total vermin. And they're the ones who get all the publicity.

Ostrogoths, now, well, that's a whole different story!