A Little Needed Humility

[Buka]

In jow gars defence there. people overcook the humble nonsense.

And start taking pride in being humble.

Yeah, some do. But not us. We're all full of real pie.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, some do. But not us. We're all full of real pie.

We are full of something, Buka. I'll give you that much.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Given the way the word "humble" is being misused in this thread, there's a shocking lack of "humility".

 

[Buka]

On the other side of the humble coin, a man once told me "When you have a cannon, shoot it."

You know who told me that? A man with a cannon.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You don't know? You should get out more, maybe?

For me there's no need for me to specifically know who is better than me or not. I just need to know that they are out there. That person may show their skill set right away or that person may choose to only show the same level of skill of their opponent. If I keep this mindset then, I keep in my mind that it's possible that the person in front of me or teaching me may be better than what they let on.

I don't think you really mean you may not like that, it is the single most, absolutely awesome thing about the Martial Arts world.

I don't like TKD and I really don't like Wing Chun, but me learning about them isn't about "what I like" It's about "what I can learn" or "what I can experience" and then taking that experience to help me be better at what I do like. Based on my post in Martial Talk, one would think that I actually like those two systems. I don't have to like Wing Chun or TKD for them to provide value to what I do.

For example, some people really don't like a specific martial art system and because of that, they see it as a useless art as in "That system is totally useless" solely on the fact that they don't like it.

Which is kind of contradictory to previous statements.

This isn't contradictory to previous statements. If you were starving on the streets and someone gave you a meal that you didn't like. You would still eat that food because you recognize the value in it. You don't have to discard what you like. The concept of the Better Martial Art isn't universal, it's individual, and the reason it's usually better, is because it's what's better for you as an individual, it meets your goals and requirements.

Guessing? In what way?

Guess as in having an idea about how something may work or may not work (a guess) and then exploring or asking if your guess or assumptions are correct. After a person reaches a certain advance level within their own martial art system, that person should have enough knowledge to get a feel for how techniques can be realistically used, then they take that initial guess and explore to see if they were correct in their thinking and if not then why were they wrong.

Take the following quote from the OP

Rather than performing the exercise as described, my training (and my ego) wanted to use my own skillset, poor though that might be. I tried an overhead block, which would be a standard defense against an incoming overhand, cross, or looping punch; the idea being to isolate the arm, step in, and destroy the center.

To me what he did wasn't wrong. Why he did it is where the problem lies. For me that same situation would have played out as. I learn what is being taught, then I get the idea that I might be able to do it with another technique (a guess) then I try it to see if I'm right. If it doesn't work then I have a better understanding of why the instructor taught the specific knife defense technique and I gain better knowledge of my own technique and the limitations. So now I would have a better understanding of when I should and shouldn't use that overhead block. In my mind it's not about ego (that I know a better way) It's about me thinking that I may know something else that may work and the only way to know for sure is to try it out and learn from the outcome.

I guess for me it may be different than Bill because I always think that I'm not as good as I am. There are things that I'm good at, but that's not the same as being a good fighter or good martial artist. I embrace my mistakes and my failures when it comes to martial arts.

I learned by failing, hopefully I can avoid that in the future.

This where Bill and I may differ. I learn by failing everyday at something, just as much as I learn by doing things right the first time. With kung fu, if a person doesn't have a long list of failures then they aren't training outside of their comfort zone, and they aren't taking the necessary risks required to learn how to apply the techniques that they are learning.

Keep in mind that this is just my perspective. It may or may not work as well for someone else. It's just something that works for me.

 

[Flying Crane]

Given the way the word "humble" is being misused in this thread, there's a shocking lack of "humility".

Not to brag or nuthin, but I've never seen nobody so humble as me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think the problem may be that some people, like me, confuse being humble with not giving themselves enough credit. This has caused me many problems, the worst of which is me not being sure of myself. For example, under my previous Sifu, I felt like I was ages away from being able to teach effectively. That was a combination of me being humble, and him being...well, not so great. Now, under my current Sifu, he tells me, "You have the skill to teach. Don't ever doubt your own ability."

The thing is, that's something that *I* have to learn to do, and it does not come naturally to me (the not doubting part). No amount of other people telling me I am good will convince me; I need to know it in my own mind/heart/soul.

I'm not saying that this confusion is what happened to Bill, but his post made me think of it.

This is where the other instructor is with his teaching and fighting ability. Thinking that there are people who are better than me is one thing, thinking that I'm not as good is something totally different. For me I started thinking I was good when I began to see and understand how the pieces of fighting fit together. I had to eat a few punches to get there but everything made sense once that "light bulb" click on. It was like learning how a machine works and knowing enough where you can customize it to operate the way you want it to work.

It's really weird for me because. I can spar against "person A" and feel like it was a piece of cake (easy), and he can spar against me and he feel confident that he did good and held his own. Then he spars against "person A" and says that "person A" was a challenge and difficult to fight, but I fight him harder than I had to fight "person A." I always tell him to give himself more credit in his ability, and I'm always surprised when he says that he doesn't think of himself as being good at what he does.

I know this much. If I can get him to see "the light" then I'm going to write a 5 page book called "You are better than what you think"

 

[JowGaWolf]

Given the way the word "humble" is being misused in this thread, there's a shocking lack of "humility".

lol.. I got that covered see.

I don't know what humble is.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There seems to be a lot of bragging and complaining about humility in this thread. Luckily, I know the secret. The truly humble would just ignore the thread and let everyone else have their humility pissing contests.

Rats...I responded...Guess I'm not humble enough.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There seems to be a lot of bragging and complaining about humility in this thread. Luckily, I know the secret. The truly humble would just ignore the thread and let everyone else have their humility pissing contests.

Rats...I responded...Guess I'm not humble enough.

The first rule of Humble Club....

 

[jks9199]

Many martial artists are like "hey everybody! Look how humble I am! I am more humble than you and you and you and you over there! Get on my humble level scrubs!"

Well, if we're gonna go down this road...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well, if we're gonna go down this road...

didn't they use this song to torture prisoners? I'm pretty sure they did. lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

oops wrong thread

 

[JP3]

Here's a cool word to toss in, "hubris."

Hubris: Noun: excessive pride or self-confidence.

I have often in the past resembled that remark. Odd, how I continue to train and it seems to fade. Long gone are the smack-talk days, or instigation, or even macho reaction (unless beers or my lady are involved). So, maybe my humility quotient is rising? I dunno. But I kin spel gud.

 

[Juany118]

That's correct, Tony. I also learned a lot from you when we worked together. Remember I have zero background in grappling or any kind of knife skills.

One of my more humbling moments was when we were working on a 3 count knife drill. Rather than performing the exercise as described, my training (and my ego) wanted to use my own skillset, poor though that might be. I tried an overhead block, which would be a standard defense against an incoming overhand, cross, or looping punch; the idea being to isolate the arm, step in, and destroy the center. The problem is that my skillset doesn't really apply. A person throwing a punch is not going to simply turn his strike into a slashing motion, escaping the block. But with a knife? Pish, different story entirely, and I'd quickly have my entrails as my extrails, as I was shown.

I found the same effect when I tried to lock an incoming 'punch' under my armpit to apply an armbar with the other arm. Again, a fist trapped in my armpit is not going to hurt me; a knife in my armpit is kind of a bad thing.

Where my skills applied was in defending against an incoming kick; the defense against a mawashigeri is something I'm well-equipped to deal with and didn't find it a challenge, although it was interesting to defend against kicks developed in a different style, such as muay thai. The kicker's base was different, so his legs were not where I expected them to be once I isolated the kicking leg, but they were not expecting me to lift as high as I did, so they were overbalanced anyway.

However, the majority of the seminar I was entirely out of my element, a fish out of water, and once I twigged to the fact that my so-called skills were of nearly no use there, I was able to adopt a learner's attitude and I can only hope that others realized how grateful I was for the lessons.

This was also my biggest transition. I had taken other Martial before I started studying FMA and WC at the same school. A striking art that largely uses deflections vs blocks? That was knew to me. Then the idea of having to widen footwork and account for the additional paths a knife, stick or sword can follow by using the wrist as an additional pivot point? It was eye opening, and fun.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[drop bear]

You can go even simpler with weapons to mess a guys head up. There is a cool way to go weapon first then move. Which is almost the exact opposite of how a punch works.

 

[oftheherd1]

I think the problem may be that some people, like me, confuse being humble with not giving themselves enough credit. This has caused me many problems, the worst of which is me not being sure of myself. For example, under my previous Sifu, I felt like I was ages away from being able to teach effectively. That was a combination of me being humble, and him being...well, not so great. Now, under my current Sifu, he tells me, "You have the skill to teach. Don't ever doubt your own ability."

The thing is, that's something that *I* have to learn to do, and it does not come naturally to me (the not doubting part). No amount of other people telling me I am good will convince me; I need to know it in my own mind/heart/soul.

I'm not saying that this confusion is what happened to Bill, but his post made me think of it.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with having pride in learning a lot of MA skills. Disdaining another skill set or even just a technique, because we think we know better with all our previous training, as Bill pointed out, is a block to learning more skills.

Realizing we have allowed pride to block useful learning, and changing our mindset to where we can see another, and perhaps better way, normally requires an amount of humility. In my opinion, nothing wrong with that either.

For many of us, and certainly myself many times, is making that jump from I already know all the best ways, to understanding that maybe if I loosen my mind constraints, I might really add a useful tool to my toolbox. That usually takes humility.

To me, self confidence is an entirely different matter. It may well be aided from outside ourselves, with help and encouragement, from someone else, but in my opinion, my self confidence is mine, or eludes me. While others may influence it, it is mine to grasp or let slip away.

Humility comes to play in that I am able to discern that maybe someone else may have valuable input on my abilities. I must test that in my mind and in my actions with others. But again, ultimately, it is mine to assimilate or reject, to my good or bad learning.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

One of my more humbling moments was when we were working on a 3 count knife drill. Rather than performing the exercise as described, my training (and my ego) wanted to use my own skillset, poor though that might be. I tried an overhead block, which would be a standard defense against an incoming overhand, cross, or looping punch; the idea being to isolate the arm, step in, and destroy the center. The problem is that my skillset doesn't really apply. A person throwing a punch is not going to simply turn his strike into a slashing motion, escaping the block. But with a knife? Pish, different story entirely, and I'd quickly have my entrails as my extrails, as I was shown.

I found the same effect when I tried to lock an incoming 'punch' under my armpit to apply an armbar with the other arm. Again, a fist trapped in my armpit is not going to hurt me; a knife in my armpit is kind of a bad thing.

Stepping away from the "oh lord it's hard to be humble" jokes for a minute ...

Another way to approach this situation is from a viewpoint of basic selfishness and frugality.

Suppose the techniques you already knew were just as good as what Brian was teaching for the scenario at hand. Suppose for every drill and technique he taught you already had something just as good and you practiced that instead. Congratulations. You would have paid the admission and spent the entire day at the seminar and not learned a darned thing. What a waste of time and money!

I've seen people like that at seminars before. "Oh we have this same technique in Flying Monkey Kempo Jutsu Do, only we do it this way ..." ... and then they practice the technique they already know instead of what's being taught. I'm thinking to myself, "why did you even bother to attend?"

My budget and schedule are tight enough that if I'm going to spend time and money I want to have something to show for it at the end. I won't get that if I don't try what's being taught. Maybe I do already have techniques which are just as good, but by trying the new material maybe I'll get a new perspective on what I already know or a new detail I can apply. I'm going to get some kind of return on my investment.

 

[Balrog]

Went to a seminar for a completely different set of martial arts skills and got schooled. My attitude was wrong going in, but my eyes were opened and I was able to humble myself enough to truly learn by the end.

Your first four words in the quoted part are something that gets overlooked a lot. We, as instructors, need to keep training in order to keep our skill levels up. I'm considered a Master Instructor, but to me, that just means I'm a higher level student.

There's always something new to learn, and kudos to you for being willing to go learn it, even if it was painful.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

... and back to the pitfalls of pride ...

I started training Capoeira a few months ago. I recognized that it was well outside my comfort zone and areas of expertise, so I went in intending to have a real beginner's mind. Sure, there were a few simple things I already knew how to do, but most of it was an entirely new approach.

Then after almost 3 months I realized that the "few simple things" I "already knew how to do" (like basic inside and outside crescent kicks) I was doing wrong. There were some key details of the body dynamics involved that I was missing. That by itself is no big deal - I'm still correcting small details in arts that I've been doing for decades - except that I saw those details when my instructor first showed the technique. I saw them and it didn't register with me that I was doing something different. If I hadn't been so proud that I already knew how to do a few things right, I might have realized earlier that I was doing them wrong.