Humility

[Black Bear]

Matt Thornton, founder of the Straight Blast Gym, explained the difference between a warrior's humility and a beggar's humility.

A beggar will bow down and scrape the floor before anyone whom he sees as higher than him. But anyone he sees as being below him, he expects them to bow and scrape the floor before him.

A warrior will bow before no man but will expect no man to bow before him.

The language is not gender-inclusive, but the idea is powerful. It made me think about the attitude I have toward my fellow students and people I have the responsibility of instructing. The martial arts more than any other setting tends to show the ugliness of a beggar's humility.

Anyway, this is a spinoff from the "things that bug you about martial arts" thread. What do you people think?

 

[MA-Caver]

As far as Martial Arts is concerned?
My definition of humility is knowing that no matter how much I train, practice, experience and know about martial arts...there's always going to be someone out there who's going to be better than me.
:asian:

 

[JD_Nelson]

It made me think about the attitude I have toward my fellow students and people I have the responsibility of instructing.

So should the student bow to the instructor? or should the Instructor bow to the student?


Salute,

JD

 

[Black Bear]

At our school, no bowing occurs. If you understand Mead's theory of symbolic interactionism then you know that bowing can mean different things to different people, so I really can't answer this question for you. Bowing is meant figuratively in the dealie I was talking about. I think we can all tell intuitively what is meant by it. It shouldn't be taken to mean a disapproval of the act of bowing.

We do handshakes and back-pats afterward, which is similar in intent I guess to what some people do when they ritsurei or salute or whatever. But we're not Japanese or Chinese or Filipino, so we shake hands and pat backs.

We freely give each other esteem as human beings and colleagues, or encouragement for good effort or achievement. And there is another sort of respect that is afforded to those who take on the responsibility of teaching. There's nothing wrong with respect. For instance, last Christmas, I gave my coach a plastic monkey keychain that, when you press a lever, his mouth opens and an LED light goes on inside. This to thank him for the hard work he put into bringing our studio into the community of StraightBlast Gym's "gorilla gyms".

 

[dearnis.com]

FYI the quote is from Carlos Castaneda originally.

 

[Makalakumu]

We always bow in my dojang. I view it as a sign of mutual respect. My students teach me as much about my martial art as I teach them. When they bow to me, they show respect for my knowledge. When I bow to them, I show respect for their presence. (and knowledge)

 

[bdparsons]

Humility is the one thing you lose as soon as you realize you have it.

Humility is the result of a proper attitude, not the attitude itself.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[theletch1]

This thread brings to mind an anectdote from a seminar that I attended for Nihon Goshin Aikido in September of last year. During the seminar Sensei MacEwen addressed me directly and had me step out for a demonstration of a technique. Sensei MacEwen is one of the foremost authorities on my art, has 35 years of training (compared to my whole 3 years). Needless to say I was somewhat intimidated to be training with someone so knowledgable in my art. As I stepped from the line toward the mat I bowed to Sensei MacEwen. He stopped dead in his tracks, looked me in the eye and said "There's no need to bow to me." This had a huge impact on me. Here is this man who has forgotten more in the last month about martial arts than I have learned telling me not to bow to him. The general attitude for the rest of the seminar changed drastically for me at that point. I was able to relax and just have fun learning from folks who know what they are doing without all the pretention and formality.

 

[Black Bear]

Originally posted by bdparsons
Humility is the one thing you lose as soon as you realize you have it.

I've heard stuff like that, but I don't buy it for a second. In fact, to me, that's preposterous. “Humility is to have a right estimate of oneself,” someone once said. If you are able to esteem and delight in others equally as you do yourself, and are able to put others’ interests before your own, apologize when you should, etc. that is humility. People make it into this silly, mystical thing.

The intimation in this absurd statement (that about "losing humility") is that a humble person cannot be aware that he is humble, because awareness of his virtue will make him unhumble. That is false humility. A humble person can be aware of his own virtues as well as of his own faults. To be oblivious of one's own virtues is either false pretence or total idiocy. Hence, "Humility is to have a right estimate of oneself".

Human beings are such that if we did have a right estimate of ourselves, we would be INDEED humble.

Add that to my list of pet peeves about martial arts: its predilection for mumbo jumbo, and paradoxical-sounding things that appear clever. Some martial artists can be so addicted to these things that they can't even think straight. Present company excluded of course.

 

[bdparsons]

I get your point, though I tend not to agree, and that's my option as it is yours to disagree with me. BTW, the saying has nothing whatsoever to do with "martial arts mystical mumbo-jumbo". Humility is a result of proper attitude not the attitude itself. Trust me when I say there's no self-indulgence or addiction going on here. (No humility either.)

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[Black Bear]

Indeed! No one has ever accused the angry laser monkey of being humble!

 

[superdave]

Humility or pacification? In my opinion, many practitioners lean towards pacification instead of humility.

 

[Black Bear]

Not sure what you mean by pacification. As in pacifying others?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I see a preson a being humble if he/she:

Has vast amounts of skill,knowledge yet has no problem learning from someone his junior (in years or experence)

Someone who can laugh at their mistakes, enjoy a joke played on them, not have to take center stage all the time

Admit they are wrong hen correct the problem and give cridet to the one who pointed out the mistake

will not argue when it is evident they are correct and the other person will never see the tuth of the situation ( this may not be humble but it limits alot of headachs)

 

[bdparsons]

"Indeed! No one has ever accused the angry laser monkey of being humble!"

I don't get the reference (probably age).

Never mind, I just noticed your avatar (still probably age)!

Respects,
Bill Parsons

 

[superdave]

Originally posted by Black Bear
Not sure what you mean by pacification. As in pacifying others?

What I meant by pacification, was someone who will go to great lengths to avoid any conflict, not just a physical conflict.

 

[Black Bear]

bdparsons, :asian:

superdave, I see your point. So a person could pacify another and just be humouring him/her. Though I suppose it requires some small degree of humility to do this sometimes.

tshadowchaser, very wise post. For that last item, I think that has to do with the degree to which a given person feels a need to appear to be correct, ie. "to look good". I suppose that a humble person does not need an audience.

 

[Black Bear]

Do you think that a fair definition of humility would be, to be free of the "self-serving bias" that is pervasive among us human beings?

BTW, thanks to dearnis.com for the tidbit.