A Little Needed Humility

[Bill Mattocks]

Suppose the techniques you already knew were just as good as what Brian was teaching for the scenario at hand.

Not to be nit-picky, but I don't feel the techniques I've been trained in are poor; but they were not applicable to the weapons attacks being taught.

Suppose for every drill and technique he taught you already had something just as good and you practiced that instead. Congratulations. You would have paid the admission and spent the entire day at the seminar and not learned a darned thing. What a waste of time and money!

Agreed.

I've seen people like that at seminars before. "Oh we have this same technique in Flying Monkey Kempo Jutsu Do, only we do it this way ..." ... and then they practice the technique they already know instead of what's being taught. I'm thinking to myself, "why did you even bother to attend?"

Some of the folks I have seen attend seminars seem to do so in order to be able to ask 'stump the instructor' questions, pontificate on the superiority of their own style, or they just like to 'be there', standing around and not participating in any way.

My budget and schedule are tight enough that if I'm going to spend time and money I want to have something to show for it at the end. I won't get that if I don't try what's being taught. Maybe I do already have techniques which are just as good, but by trying the new material maybe I'll get a new perspective on what I already know or a new detail I can apply. I'm going to get some kind of return on my investment.

I honestly went because I had been asked, and because a good RL friend was going to be there, and I felt I needed something different.

I have developed a somewhat negative attitude on both seminars and tournaments in the past couple years. Speaking only of karate-style events, either I saw a whole lot of bad technique and questionable teachings (and I have enough gall to believe that yes, at this point in my training, I can recognize crap technique when I see it) or it's good technique but we do it all the time in my dojo already. I am the beneficiary of excellent training, which is very fortunate for me, but it does mean bad technique doesn't impress me and what causes jaws to drop at some seminars is stuff I already know for the most part.

However, although I tend to forget it, I believe that there is no way to fill a cup that is already overflowing. I got with the program in the case of the seminar we're speaking of, emptied my cup, and learned. And it was well worth it - my 'style' doesn't have a ready defense against the knife attacks I saw - at least not at my training level. I suspect that a real master in the style I train in would have a few responses that would be effective and brutal, but I don't (cause I'm not a master).

I learned enough to whet my interest. I would like to learn more. That's the point of a good seminar, I suppose. So well done to all and I'm very glad I was able to attend.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Stepping away from the "oh lord it's hard to be humble" jokes for a minute ...

Another way to approach this situation is from a viewpoint of basic selfishness and frugality.

Suppose the techniques you already knew were just as good as what Brian was teaching for the scenario at hand. Suppose for every drill and technique he taught you already had something just as good and you practiced that instead. Congratulations. You would have paid the admission and spent the entire day at the seminar and not learned a darned thing. What a waste of time and money!

I've seen people like that at seminars before. "Oh we have this same technique in Flying Monkey Kempo Jutsu Do, only we do it this way ..." ... and then they practice the technique they already know instead of what's being taught. I'm thinking to myself, "why did you even bother to attend?"

My budget and schedule are tight enough that if I'm going to spend time and money I want to have something to show for it at the end. I won't get that if I don't try what's being taught. Maybe I do already have techniques which are just as good, but by trying the new material maybe I'll get a new perspective on what I already know or a new detail I can apply. I'm going to get some kind of return on my investment.

Agreed. Even if I find myself grumbling that "I can do this a better way", I'm still doing exactly what the instructor told me to do, as I grumble.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Some of the folks I have seen attend seminars seem to do so in order to be able to ask 'stump the instructor' questions, pontificate on the superiority of their own style, or they just like to 'be there', standing around and not participating in any way.

I think these are the same folks who like to tell people they study martial arts, but don't really study them - they just attend classes. There's a difference.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Not to be nit-picky, but I don't feel the techniques I've been trained in are poor; but they were not applicable to the weapons attacks being taught.

Didn't mean to imply that there was anything wrong with what you've learned in the right context. That's why I said "for the scenario at hand."

Some of the folks I have seen attend seminars seem to do so in order to be able to ask 'stump the instructor' questions, pontificate on the superiority of their own style, or they just like to 'be there', standing around and not participating in any way.

I've seen that too on occasion. I think those people must have well paying jobs if they have money to waste like that.

I have developed a somewhat negative attitude on both seminars and tournaments in the past couple years. Speaking only of karate-style events, either I saw a whole lot of bad technique and questionable teachings (and I have enough gall to believe that yes, at this point in my training, I can recognize crap technique when I see it) or it's good technique but we do it all the time in my dojo already. I am the beneficiary of excellent training, which is very fortunate for me, but it does mean bad technique doesn't impress me and what causes jaws to drop at some seminars is stuff I already know for the most part.

I'm happy to say that there are some really excellent seminar instructors out there if you know where to look. I wouldn't know about who the good Karate guys are (maybe ask @Buka ), but I've had some excellent luck with seminars in a variety of other arts.

And it was well worth it - my 'style' doesn't have a ready defense against the knife attacks I saw - at least not at my training level.

Brian was actually keeping it pretty simple in terms of basic, unsophisticated knife attacks. Once you get into the idea of working against a trained knife fighter you can get pretty far down the rabbit hole and things get really challenging.

 

[drop bear]

You know how they say do something that scares you every day?


Do something you suck at.

 

[drop bear]

... and back to the pitfalls of pride ...

I started training Capoeira a few months ago. I recognized that it was well outside my comfort zone and areas of expertise, so I went in intending to have a real beginner's mind. Sure, there were a few simple things I already knew how to do, but most of it was an entirely new approach.

Then after almost 3 months I realized that the "few simple things" I "already knew how to do" (like basic inside and outside crescent kicks) I was doing wrong. There were some key details of the body dynamics involved that I was missing. That by itself is no big deal - I'm still correcting small details in arts that I've been doing for decades - except that I saw those details when my instructor first showed the technique. I saw them and it didn't register with me that I was doing something different. If I hadn't been so proud that I already knew how to do a few things right, I might have realized earlier that I was doing them wrong.

The other issue ,I get anyway. Is if I know I am going to perform badly. Hip hop class was a good example. I dont really want to try because it makes me look extra goober.

No now I make a commitment to really attempt whatever silly crap I am dooing.

Capo is exactly one of those styles that will make you look like an idiot. And so should be manditory for all martial artists at some point.

Peferably at black belt.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You know how they say do something that scares you every day?


Do something you suck at.

For some of us, that's an easy task to accomplish.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I

The other issue ,I get anyway. Is if I know I am going to perform badly. Hip hop class was a good example. I dont really want to try because it makes me look extra goober.

No now I make a commitment to really attempt whatever silly crap I am dooing.

Capo is exactly one of those styles that will make you look like an idiot. And so should be manditory for all martial artists at some point.

Peferably at black belt.

I rarely choose to do things that make me look extra goober. I do enough of that crap without trying, mate.

 

[drop bear]

I


I rarely choose to do things that make me look extra goober. I do enough of that crap without trying, mate.

Trying and choosing is the most important part.

If you never tried then you never really failed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Trying and choosing is the most important part.

If you never tried then you never really failed.

Ah, but I can try something that I don't think will make me look goober, fail, and look goober anyway. It's a gift.

 

[MaxRob]

Humility is a virtue and difficult to practice but the rewards are huge

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Bill, I was incredibly happy that you could attend. It is always good to meet new people from MartialTalk and people who enjoy the Martial Sciences like I do.

I am also happy that you were able to learn some thing and found value in coming. That of course makes me very happy!

One of the most important things we can do as a martial practitioner is to step out of our comfort zone. It is very easy to get involved in a certain martial system and become proficient in it. Then comfortable in what we do and feel it is superior in some way. Then, not really want to look at what other systems and what other people do. This, unfortunately is a trap that many people fall into at some point in their training! Having a students mind and always being willing to try some thing new is really important. Hopefully, it will be a good experience and even if it isn't some times those are just as important!

Once again I am so glad you attended!

 

[Buka]

I'm happy to say that there are some really excellent seminar instructors out there if you know where to look. I wouldn't know about who the good Karate guys are (maybe ask @Buka ), but I've had some excellent luck with seminars in a variety of other arts.

I'm not really up on who's who in the Karate world anymore. Some of the established Karate guys today probably weren't yet born when I made Black Belt. I probably knew some of their instructors.

Been to a lot of great seminars over the years, though. What I like about them is they're fun, usually interesting, sometimes you learn a lot, sometimes you learn an avenue you wish to go down, sometimes you meet some really good people, some time they're just plain entertaining. I went to a George Dillman seminar back in 05 or so. I just wanted to see him up close. I've never been so completely entertained in my life. What a great rap he has, and he's been in the arts long enough to be very knowledgeable. Obviously not my cup of tea as far as Karate goes, but, it was worth whatever it cost. I'm actually smiling right now as I think about it. Cant really put a price tag on a big smile a decade later. I don't think anyone should rule out the entertainment factor - at least if you have the spare time.

And seminars can be specific to the attendees. Sometimes you get asked to come and do a seminar on whatever it is they're interested in. Sometimes you ask someone to come in and do a seminar specifically for what it is you want. I used to assist Joe Lewis in seminars, probably a dozen of them. (first met him at a seminar in 73. And there was only six of us that attended) I've never seen Joe do the same seminar twice. He was one of the most knowledgeable Martial Artists I've ever known. I used to have him come down to my school for seminars all the time.They were always different. I mean, how much can you cover in four hours? Not a lot. One time, in the late eighties, I had him do a seminar on out and out dirty fighting. Not fighting dirty in competition, please don't think that, I mean just all out nasty fighting. Holy crap. There was so much more to brawling than I ever dreamed possible.

I would have loved to been at Brian's seminar. That's the kind I like. And if I was hurt beforehand, I would have loved to have watched. I've been to a handful of seminars and only taken notes, because of busted ribs or whatever. And every one of them was worth it.

I've been to completely Traditional Karate seminars, usually put on by folks I've become friends with over the years. Dozens of them. Enjoyed every one of them. Always odd for the other attendees at first, because we wear black gis. They tend to look at you funny (which amuses me to no end) Then they realize you are a friend of whoever is teaching - and get all cowed. (which amuses me even more)

I've been to Karate seminars, Kung Fu seminars, Tae-kwon-do seminars, Jiu-jitsu seminars, boxing seminars (yes, they have them, too) knife seminars, shooting seminars, stick seminars, kick seminars, self defense seminars, law enforcement seminars and choke seminars. I'm sure there's more kinds, I just don't remember right now.

I love seminars. They're fun. And the beer is cold afterwards and the food is usually good. But you gotta' take notes, either during or immediately after. Or you'll forget something.