A baseball bat as home self defense?

Dirty Dog

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I imagine though that the investigating police don't take it at face value that the person broke in.
In Texas, it's legal to shoot someone if you catch them in the act of vandalizing your car.
 

Tez3

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In Texas, it's legal to shoot someone if you catch them in the act of vandalizing your car.
There's the same point though. Police officers turn up to a car, a body and a car owner with a gun. Do they just take the car owner's word for it or do they investigate?
 

Dirty Dog

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There's the same point though. Police officers turn up to a car, a body and a car owner with a gun. Do they just take the car owner's word for it or do they investigate?
To clarify, it's not specifically your car. Texas law allows the use of deadly force to protect property, as well as people. Other places limit it to people only.

Do the police in the UK investigate?

Of course they do. It's sort of a ridiculous question.
 

wab25

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To clarify, it's not specifically your car. Texas law allows the use of deadly force to protect property, as well as people. Other places limit it to people only.

Do the police in the UK investigate?

Of course they do. It's sort of a ridiculous question.
I think Tez is referring to all the flak the UK gets in online forums when they investigate a "self defense" shooting. She is making the point that investigations are made everywhere... not just in the UK.

I think the real issue is the difference between American English and UK English. The UK source will use words and phrases that, in the UK, clearly mean that an investigation has been started. However, if you read those same words and phrases from an American English point of view, it sounds like the investigation is over, and the one "defending themself" has already been found in the wrong. I am guilty of making that mistake in the past.... and have seen quite a few people make that mistake to this day.... Even though we both speak English.... its not quite the same.
 
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Zombocalypse

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In Texas, it's legal to shoot someone if you catch them in the act of vandalizing your car.

Is that a common thing on US states? Or is Texas a bit of an outlier when it comes to that?
 
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Zombocalypse

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Are you sure you know what you are signing up for when you enroll in your local BJJ gym?

Yes sir! Don't worry, I understand it's a grappling art. I simply thought that striking range and grappling range are lumped together into "close quarters".
 

Dirty Dog

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Is that a common thing on US states? Or is Texas a bit of an outlier when it comes to that?
I do not know. I'm not a lawyer. I know about Texas law because I lived there for a time, and I have a daughter who still lives there. Which means I go there to visit.

If I were to guess, I would say Texas is an outlier. But, again, I have no proof.

I'm not interested in googling the lethal force laws in 50 states, but if you really want an answer, you can.
 

wab25

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Is that a common thing on US states? Or is Texas a bit of an outlier when it comes to that?
Here is the thing.... its not important or even relevant, what happens in the 49 other states. It only matters what the law says in the state where you are during the altercation. Thats why it is important for people to find out what the local law is, where they are. If you live in an outlier state, where you have a duty to retreat... and you use your baseball bat, without retreating.... it does not matter that in most other states, you would be cleared.... you would still be guilty of not retreating. That may change what you did, from "self defense" into assault with a deadly weapon. You could be charged criminally and have jail time and or have a civil suit filed against you... even the lawyer you need to defend yourself will drain all your finances and probably put you in debt for a while....
 

mograph

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(I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have law enforcement experience.)

I'd go to the local cop shop and ask them how to defend myself if confronted by an intruder in my home in my neighbourhood. They might have ideas applicable to your locality, and have ideas on how to secure your home.
But I wouldn't appear eager to use deadly force -- I'd probably want to appear vulnerable, not itching for a fight.
 

drop bear

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A baseball bat would have less clean up that a gun in a break in.

Regardless of the state you still have to justify killing someone. Which I assume is generally a painful process best avoided. And at 3 in the morning possibly not something you want to have to do.

Otherwise I have one of those cold steel beat you to death walking sticks. And my theory is it can be a walking stick untill it isn't. Which gives it a bit of camouflage.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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A baseball bat would have less clean up that a gun in a break in.

Regardless of the state you still have to justify killing someone. Which I assume is generally a painful process best avoided. And at 3 in the morning possibly not something you want to have to do.

Otherwise I have one of those cold steel beat you to death walking sticks. And my theory is it can be a walking stick untill it isn't. Which gives it a bit of camouflage.
Actually, justification varies as well. California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. In California there is a legal presumption that someone forcibly entering an occupied home is there to commit rape, robbery, murder, or mayhem, all of which are legally justified reasons to use deadly force with no requirement to retreat. This means that the attorneys of the perpetrator must first overcome that legal presumption before any sort of criminal charge can be initiated against the defender. The rub is that none of that will prevent civil cases being filed. It doesnt matter what kind of weapon was used, if any.
 

wab25

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While this video is primarily about Stand Your Ground doctrine... it does a good job of covering the use of lethal force... and what the law is looking for.... Even Duty to Retreat is covered briefly and is not what most people think it is.

 

jks9199

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Is that a common thing on US states? Or is Texas a bit of an outlier when it comes to that?
Texas is a bit of an outlier -- but not exclusive. In most states, you'll have a hard time justifying lethal force to defend property (outside of some exceptions like nuclear secrets). Texas has a very broad statutory interpretation of the Castle Doctrine. In brief, the Castle Doctrine lets a person assume that that someone breaking into their home -- their "castle" -- intends to do them serious harm, and may justify the use of lethal force without further retreat. That's a really brief summary, and there is a lot of nuance state-to-state. The Texas law can be found HERE. For comparison, HERE is an article on Virginia's self-defense laws.

That said -- I don't know that I'd want to be on the civil suit defense for the use of lethal force over vandalism or even auto theft. It may be permitted under the criminal law, but that doesn't mean you'll survive the civil suit...
 
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Zombocalypse

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Thanks everyone.

Im not eager for a fight. I just sleep better at night knowing I have the means to kill people if at 2 AM in the morning for some extremely unlikely reason, my peaceful neighborhood decides to have a violent nutcase break in to my room.

The weapon stays in my room. I maybe batshit crazy whos diagnosed with everything but I dont go picking fights.

The psychological state of bloodlust changes everything. Its sad that Im familiar with it. I have learned to get along with people throughout these years.
 
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