90% of all fights go to the ground

[spook mma]

where did this stat come from? we've all heard different variations - maybe some say 80%, others say 75%. but point is, there is this claim that an overwhelming percentage of fights go to the ground. is there any truth to this? and if so, can someone please provide sources?

 

[chaosomega]

I think it's just a guess. My MMA instructor said it's changed know;

"It used to be that 80% of fights would go to the ground. Now, 80% of fights might go to the ground."

 

[streetwise]

One of the Gracies, probably Rorion, used to say that all the time. Is it true? Yes and no. If one fighter is untrained and one fighter is trained in takedowns, and wants to go to the ground, probably 95% of streetfights are going to the ground. if the only trained fighter is trained in avoiding takedowns, and wants to stay on his feet, probably 5% of fights are going to the ground, if fighters are more evenly matched it is (at a guess) nearer to a 50-50 chance. I don't think he intended any statistical accuracy, he was just ponting out the importance of ground work in self defense.

 

[Kope]

I seriously doubt there's any convincing scientifc study, or even half-way decent statistical analysis, to support any (or even all) of the numbers.

However, I think the general folks have rightly observed that during most real fights, someone gets off balance and people fall down, or are pushed down, or are pulled down, or are thrown down ...

Is the percentage overwhelming? If you count every-time that someone is in a fight and during the fight someone is supported on the ground with body parts other than feet, I see no reason to disagree with it.

The question remains "so what?" That is, how does this "fact" matter to our fighting arts?

One answer, the one usually offered by the folks with ground fighting techniques to sell you for a low monthly fee, is that you must therefore have good ground fighting skills to be an all around fighter.

Another answer, the one usually offered by the folks whose art doesn't have much in the way of ground techniques, is that if you have techniques for clearing distanceand getting back up that's all you really need.

Even if we grant that 99.99% of all fights go to ground at some point, I'm not at all sure that we have near enough information to say that that fact alone should have any bearing on our training choices beyond the mere point that we need some way of dealing with that eventuality -- and that doesn't necessarily mean ground fighting techniques per se.

 

[Disco]

I would tend to think and believe that the statement of fights end up on the ground ?% of times is based upon untrained fighters. It turns into a wrestling match. A trained fighter (please people, don't go flaunting the UFC etc. Those are trained fighters inside a ring with some rules and a ref - plus tap outs), dosen't want to go to the ground. He may have too in a very small % of altercations, but he is/should be trained in ways to get back on his feet quickly. Everybody that I have polled for the last 30+ yrs in the arts have all stated the same viewpoint. The ground is your enemy in a fight on the street, even the grapplers admit to the same. There are to many unknowns to deal with. Years ago when two people fought, as strange as it sounds, there was some sort of honor. It was mano e mano. That's not the case today. You fight one, you fight his crew, posse or whatever. There is no sense of personal honor within society anymore. With that said, I hope you never have to validate that statement.
:asian:

 

[Zujitsuka]

Originally posted by spook mma
where did this stat come from? we've all heard different variations - maybe some say 80%, others say 75%. but point is, there is this claim that an overwhelming percentage of fights go to the ground. is there any truth to this? and if so, can someone please provide sources?

Mark Twain said, "There are lies. There are damn lies. Then there are statistics."

Seriously though, I don't see how this can be true. If someone was fighting a BJJer, he would probably be able to taken me to the ground. But if two kickboxers are fighting, the chances of someone mounting the other for a ground and pound or a triangle choke is just about nil.

It depends on the situation, location, and the combatants.

 

[A.R.K.]

Another consideration is the situation the fight takes place in. For example, in the environment in which I work we normally have it as a goal to take a person to the ground. In this way we can control him, preferably through pain compliance [joint lock etc] an/or cuff him/her. We have a force matrix that we adhere to in regards to the amount of force we are authorized to use in given situations. Taking an individual down is a normal practice. Strikes/kicks/spikes etc are reserved for situations inwhich the Bg is trying to cause great bodily harm an/or death to an Officer or another.

A street fight where your jumped in a parking lot is completely different of course.

I think its important to know what to do on the ground should you find yourself there or should you need to take someone there. But just as important if not more so is how to fight on your feet. Hard to escape if your tied up on the ground, and more difficult to fight off mulitiple assailants.

:asian:

 

[Hollywood1340]

Grandmaster told us at a seminar "Where did this statistic from from? Have you ever been called up and asked "Have you ever gotten into fights? How many? How many went to the ground?" No, you havn't and I havn't either and we never wll." Looks like a good reason to take BJJ though doesn't it (Whipser) The truth is out there.....

 

[ob2c]

I think the stat is bogus, even if just from personal observation by the "statistician". And even when one person goes down, the other often just tries to kick the crap out of him. That being said, I still think it is a good idea for defense/reality based MA's to know how to fall as well as how to fight on the ground. Who can say what will happen in a fight, or even what type fighter you'll face?

 

[dearnis.com]

the figure comes from an LAPD study and those who quote it are often ignorant of this. And it is a loaded figure; the goal in an LE situation is to take the other guy to the ground for control/restraint.

 

[MartialArtist]

In real fights, I've seen ones where both go to the ground and fights where nobody gets down. In most fights I've seen, it's one person knocking the other guy to the ground and starts kicking him on the ground or just starts pounding.

80%? From my experience, no. But still, one should still be comfortable on the ground... One should be able to take a person to the ground, or if you're on the ground, know how to get back up, or if both of you are on the ground, you should be comfortable with what you do from there.

 

[Zepp]

Originally posted by dearnis.com
the figure comes from an LAPD study and those who quote it are often ignorant of this. And it is a loaded figure; the goal in an LE situation is to take the other guy to the ground for control/restraint.

That just makes it even funnier then that so many BJJ instructors use that stat to advertise their art.

Is there somewhere online that we could read the study?

 

[spook mma]

thank you dearnis, i was trying to locate the source of this 'madness'. i find it amazing that one single misread quote has somehow shaped the public into thinking that bjj or other ground arts (in no way a slam on grappling arts) is 'the way'. i can appreciate what advatanges striking has over grappling, and vice versa, but why do you think that the general public has this idea that grappling is the end-all of martial arts? is this all the result of UFC, the success of royce gracie, and MMA???

 

[bdparsons]

is weighted. Raw statistical data is meant to be manipulated and is usually biased toward preconceived outcomes. I once had a professor tell me that the people who least believe statistics are the statisticians.

Of course you should be aware that 90% of martial artists will believe any statistic that gives them a reason to study something they're already interested in.

:shrug:
Bill Parsons

 

[streetwise]

Hollywood1340, since a large part of Hapkido is takedowns, I would think your Grandmaster would be a fan of this quote. Not trying to be impolite, it just struck me as strange.

"Go to the ground" does not mean "establish guard and work for a triangle choke", it just means someone sits down, falls, or is thrown. Yes, this quote was used as a sales slogan by the Gracies, but that does not invalidate the idea that you should have some ground skills.

 

[jeffkyle]

As long as it isn't ME on the ground! :asian:

 

[DAC..florida]

Most street fights I have been in or seen have ended up on the gruond.:asian:

 

[ace]

Originally posted by spook mma
where did this stat come from? we've all heard different variations - maybe some say 80%, others say 75%. but point is, there is this claim that an overwhelming percentage of fights go to the ground. is there any truth to this? and if so, can someone please provide sources?

this is a P.D. statistic.
U can talk to your local P.D. & they will give U the Facts.
& in MMA it's verry rear That The Fight does not go to the Ground.

Having Fought in MMA my Self i say U have to strive
to beable to Fight were ever the Fight Goes.

When i fought at Combat Zone My fight was
ended on the Ground in 2:55 with Heel Hook/Kneebar in the
first Round I Throug a few Leg Kicks on The Feet.

And my oppnet Hit me pretty good on the Ground
But in the End i got the Submisson.

 

[J-kid]

There is some truth to the claim that 80% of fights end up on the ground.

Say 2 well trained boxers go at it
boxer A
and
boxer B

they get into a real fight on the street and start swinging, boxer A throws a few quick jabs and a hook and land only the hook.
Boxer B sends a Hard cross and connects.
Now both Boxers are clinched and Boxer A trips boxer B who grabs onto A and brings him to the ground as well.
They both spend about 3 mins rolling around trying to punch each other when they both just get up and do it again and fall down.

You see this is how alot of fights end up on the ground.
If you have ever seen a real boxing match in the ring you see the boxers always end up in the clinch holding each other then the ref comes and breaks them apart.

Now in a fight you will probley end up with someone falling down when you are holding on to each other.

And thats were you get the number 80% of fights go to the ground.

 

[J-kid]

or if you have seen any mixed martial arts events you will see takedowns all the time.